Goodbye to All That
Ted Koppel announced last week that he would be leaving the evening news programNightline
after 25 years with the program. It's something that [Teds] been thinking about for a long time. After 25 years of doingNightline
, he came to this decision personally. Its going to leave a void, said Leroy Sievers, who months earlier had leftNightline
after working with Koppel first as senior field producer and then as executive producer for a total of 14 years. With Sievers at the helm,Nightline
was one of the last vestiges of hard news on television. At 6' 4", Sievers was a huge presence, literally and figuratively, in television news. From the genocide in Rwanda to the Iraq war he often risked his life in the interest of bringing tough stories to the public.
Sievers started his career in news after dropping out of Princeton and getting a job at a TV station in Oakland. In a few years, he was plucked away by CBS. While working for CBS he covered Desert Storm and was one of the first people to enter Kuwait City. In 1991,Nightline
hired him, and there he consistently volunteered to cover stories that others shied away from, most notably the genocide in Rwanda. In 2003, Sievers and Koppel were embedded with the Third Infantry Division, which fought its way from Kuwait to Baghdad. Sievers was an instrumental force behind the controversialNightline
episode The Fallen, during which Koppel read the names and showed the pictures of American men and women who had been killed in combat in Iraq, a number of whom Sievers and Koppel had gotten to know during their tour.
Sievers stayed withNightline
until late last year. With his departure, and yesterdays announcement that Koppel will leave when his contact expires this year,Nightline
as we know it, is no longer. So what now is the future of televised journalism?
Its gone to hell.
When did it start going to hell?
I think it was gradual. I think CNN came in and really dumbed it down. Its funny, because when CNN first started, everybody felt really sorry for them. Wed give them tape, wed give them equipment and stuff; we basically subsidized them, and had we known, we would have done none of that. They used to steal stuff too, anything on satellite they used to take off and air. And they were sort of funny, but they sort of came in with this attitude Well, if we didnt get it right this time, well get it right the next time. Or if we dont get it right the next time, well get it right the next hour, and well throw up whatever pictures weve got, it doesnt really matter and they started making money. And about the same time this is mid- to late-80s all the networks were sort of taken over by businessmen, who didnt care either. And we would say, But look, we worry about every word, we craft every shot, you know we put such care into it.
news on TV, and it was respected and well thought of and people paid attention to it. We were the good guys. You could dogood.
Now were scum. I got in trouble one time at a forum because I said: People sort of get the news they deserve. If they werent watching it. all this crap would go away.
Who was running the networks before?
I think at least people who cared about it. News was thought to be . . . it was an annoyance to some extent, but it wasnt a moneymaker, it was a responsibility, both legally and morally. Legally, to keep your license, you had to have news. Well, gradually that went away. Well, then you have to make money. And we were like, What? We dont make money. Were above all that. We spend money in huge amounts. And some of that was our fault I remember if you were going into a city that you hadnt been to before, youd get a hotel guide, youd open it up and pick the most expensive hotel in town and thats where you would want to stay. But all of a sudden it was like you have to make money, and the only way to make money was to start slashing costs. So you ended up in this spiral. Your resources for the news got crappier, and so fewer people watched, and then I think, you know, FOX came up, MSNBC came up, talk radio came up and the country changed. Talk came on and it was likeargument
. . . I mean, you got a bunch of people yelling at each other. That costs nothing.
One of the things that happened atNightline
was that we did a focus group, first time since Ive been there. In a bunch of different cities, and one of them was in Dallas, and they showed a whole bunch of different pieces. One of them was a day in the life of the John Kerry campaign. And it came back:Biased report.
Well, how can it be biased? We were unscrupulously fair. They said, Well, you covered John Kerry. We said, yeah. They said, So its biased Somethings happened with the public, and thats why I go back to You get the media you deserve.
So what happened at
was great. It was just a dream job. It was great people and it was great fun, and we were doing the kind of news that I think you were asking about. It mattered. You could do anything, andNightline
was independent and they left us alone. Ted [Koppel] and the thenexecutive producer had come up with a plan that they would sort of begin the succession because Ted, you know, didnt want to do it forever. So they came up with this idea that I was going to be executive producer, they would bring in another anchor and sort of gradually start doing more and more. So all of a sudden, I went from being in the field to being executive producer, which I actually liked. That was in 2000. The problem was my normal day was 9 in the morning to midnight. It killed me. I did nothing from 9 in the morning Monday until midnight Friday. I didnt read my mail. It was all just the job for four-plus years. And at the same time it was great fun, and you could do good things but more importantly you could let good people do good work. But theres a certain point, I think in any job, where you learn most of what youre gonna learn and then its just coming and doing the job. And for me I sort of hit that point. My contract expired, we knew there were changes coming, and we knew that the network wanted changes. The statement ultimately released in my name which really is what I said said that the company wanted changes inNightline.
We couldnt agree on those changes. Therefore I left, which makes a very long story very, very short. Thats essentially what happened.
One of the things that was happening was thatNightlines
ratings had been going down every year for 25 years, for the most part. I mean, there were little spikes . . . war is always great for ratings. But absent war, its a steady downward trend. Cable came on. We knew men were going for sex and violence. Its HBO and Showtime at 11:30 at night, Leno and Letterman. Another thing happened: The country changed. People used to stay up late. The hottest time slot in television now is 5 to 7 a.m. God knows what people are doing up then. Its people with small kids, people at the peak of their careers. God knows why theyre getting up that early, but they are. And its shifted so everyone is going to bed. So the whole universe was changing, and increasingly I think they realized thatNightline
as it was wasnt going to survive. The ratings were getting to a point where economically it didnt make sense. All those pressures sort of came together.
What is it going to become?
Its a nasty business. They made it clear that what they want is an hour show, much lighter in tone. Probably co-anchors, they want it live, awful subjects you know much different. Thats not something thats going to involve Ted. And I told them, I said, Im not the person for that show. At the same time ABC and Disney are looking at all sorts of alternatives. We heard early on that theyre looking at a home shopping show among other things. ESPN is talking about a sports show. Theyre looking at all sorts of different things. They wanted a different show; Ted wanted to do something different.
What happens to serious news?
I dont know. The second 60 Minutes [60Minutes II]
is going to go away. Thats virtually assured. A lot of the other news magazines, and I would question whether theyre serious news anymore, theyre going away. Or theyre in trouble. So whats left for the type of storytelling that were talking about? You still have the evening newscasts, but they get pushed around. They run so early out here that no ones home. Where do you go for serious news? NPR is booming. No ones quite sure why. Maybe its because radio is coming back, maybe people are going there because its serious news. If people watched in great numbers, thered be more shows like that, but theyre not. In a sense, I always felt atNightline
that we were like public television people liked to know we were there, but they didnt really want to watch us. It somehow made them feel better and they knew that if something big happened that they could turn to us and we were there. They got out of the habit. Did we miss what was happening? Should we have changed the show? Thats sort of what haunts me. Is there something I could have done that would have changed it? Not and been true to the broadcast.
People look at a show like Jon Stewart [TheDaily Show],
and they think all we need is a comedian and we can do the same thing. Well you cant. Shows are its like lightning striking. Its all the things coming together, right person, right time, right whatever. Its really tough to come up with those. One of the arguments weve used all along in defense ofNightline
is if it goes away and then you find out,Gosh, we miss that,
its really tough to start it back up. Starting a new show is risky and dangerous and expensive.
What about the Internet?
One thing about the Internet is theres no accountability. I mean, people put stuff up, God knows where its coming from. Theyre just making stuff up. At least with a network newscast you are accountable. People know who you are. If you are continuously wrong, youll be fired or something bad will happen. On the Internet, anybody can put up anything. And it gets passed around and it becomes true. Theres some great work on the Internet and some absurdities out there. But if thats where its going again, people go to look at it, theyre like,Alright I want to find out about Jen and Brad breaking up.
But what about the things that you dont know about? Whos covering any number of stories? If people dont know theyre out there, theyre not going to know to look.
Years ago I was at a conference and people were saying a couple of people that ran other shows We dont want to challenge the audience. We want to make it easy and comfortable, and I was thinking to myself,God, I want to challenge the audience every night.
Thats what I want to do. Well, it turns out maybe the audience doesnt want to be challenged.
Maybe were the lone voices crying in the wilderness. I think its cyclical, but if people dont care about whats going on now, in the world we live innow,
what will make them care? There is terrorism, there is global conflict these are cultural wars. not just geographical wars, huge segments of the globe being pitted against each other, massive problems coming up that are going to affect the next generation and the next one and the next one and the next one. If people dont care about thisnow
. . . Someone said to me once that people want to go to bed happy and the show didnt let them. My response to that wasits not necessarily a happy world.
Wish it was, but its not. And, therefore, we need to talk about this stuff. Its hard to say, Iraq war everythings fine! Go to bed. Dont worry about it.
Is there any news left?
I think the definition of things has changed. I mean, theres morequote
news than I think theres ever been, but at the same time theres less good reporting, theres less story telling. Where I think its headed as a business is news on demand. You know, youre going to say, Im interested in the weather, Im interested in film, Im interested in the beach, Im interested in Iraq. And so your computer will simply give you those stories. Whats being lost now, its just about gone, and its going to be lost when all that happens, is the idea that there are stories out there that you dont know about, that you dont know youre interested in, but you will be interested in.60 Minutes
did that. I mean, lots of people used to do that. Its like, just give us a couple of minutes and were going to take you someplace youve never been and show you something youve never seen, and its going to be really interesting. Well now, unless you know ahead of time what exists, you dont even know what to ask for. So all that storytelling is going to be lost, and youre going to come down to basic facts and figures. Again, its just stuff you know. And its a huge tragedy.
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