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"He also founded Wolfpack Hustle, which takes high-speed group rides with a somewhat cavalier approach to traffic laws."
Irony.
News
Victim Finds Hit-and-Run Driver
Famed bicyclist Don Ward tracked lobbyist Glenn Gritzner to a body shop
Bicyclists have been the loudest critics of the hit-and-run epidemic gripping Los Angeles, a crisis that has been ignored by the mayor and LAPD Chief Charlie Beck. One chilling incident in Echo Park, in particular, galvanized the bike community: the running down of cyclist Don Ward, also known as Roadblock.
PHOTO BY TED SOQUI
Bicyclist Don Ward, aka Roadblock, was thrown 50 feet. Convicted driver Glenn Gritzner, a director at elite Mercury Public Affairs, got a slap on the wrist.
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Ward is about as famous as you can get in L.A.'s bike scene because of his 6-foot-8, 225-pound frame and his role as one of the early organizers of Midnight Ridazz, an enormously popular nighttime group ride. He also founded Wolfpack Hustle, which takes high-speed group rides with a somewhat cavalier approach to traffic laws.
"We've described him, half-seriously, as the bike community's James Dean because of his rugged good looks," says Damien Newton, who runs the website LA Streetsblog. "And he's a little bit of an outlaw."
In 2009, cycling advocates were getting involved in politics, lobbying for bike lanes — Stephen Box even ran for City Council. But Ward mostly coordinated rides.
That is, until 1 a.m. on May 19, 2009, when a gray Jaguar slammed into him from behind on Glendale Boulevard in Echo Park, bouncing Ward off the hood — with the mangled bike still attached to Ward due to his clip-on shoes — and catapulting him 50 feet. The Jaguar driver slowed, looked at Ward, then shot off into the night.
"I looked back, there was this car coming really fast," Ward recalls. "It was scary. It didn't look like the car was in control. I freaked out, just tried to get out of the way."
As Ward lay on his stomach, he turned his head to watch the Jaguar creep past. That's when he saw the license plate. He began feverishly repeating the numbers aloud.
Before the crash, Ward had been cycling with friends from whom he'd become separated. One of them, Sean Maytum, came upon Ward's body. "I thought he was dead," Maytum recalls. "He wasn't moving."
Then Maytum saw his fingers move. Ward was texting. Actually, he was tweeting — the Jaguar's license plate number, of which he clearly remembered the first six digits.
Ward was banged up but would be OK. From the hospital, he posted about his ordeal on a Midnight Ridazz message board, adding: "I will find this motherfucker."
The next day, Ward called LAPD. He'd already given them a nearly complete plate number, plus the car's color and general description. He was stunned at the disinterest the LAPD investigator showed.
The officer said, "Yeah, it's gonna take a couple weeks to run down the plate. You could try to find the car if you want."
As L.A. Weekly reported on Dec. 11, in a four-month investigation by Simone Wilson, "L.A.'s Bloody Hit-and-Run Epidemic," city leaders such as Beck and Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa are ignoring, or unaware of, the car-as-weapon crisis in this city.
In the United States, 11 percent of all car crashes are hit-and-runs. In L.A., an incredible 48 percent are hit-and-runs. The levels are epidemic — 20,000 hit-and-runs inside the city limits annually.
The mowing down of Don Ward wasn't even a blip in a city where authorities have lost whatever grip they once may have had. But the public is getting angry: Ward's post in 2009 on the Midnight Ridazz message board generated hundreds of responses, including one from DJ Wheels — lawyer Danny Jimenez.
Jimenez had a friend in the California Highway Patrol who took five minutes, not LAPD's two weeks, to "run down the plate." Of four possible matches, one was a Jaguar registered to Glenn Gritzner, who lived near Silver Lake Reservoir, about two miles from the Echo Park crime scene.
Ward and Jimenez Googled "Glenn Gritzner" and found a blog site where he reviews bars in downtown L.A. The logo: a martini glass. Then their Internet search turned up something shocking: Gritzner wasn't an illegal immigrant fearing deportation, or a laid-off worker without insurance. He's a well-to-do, high-flying lobbyist and political player in City Hall and Sacramento, a managing director of Mercury Public Affairs, a powerful firm whose top partners include former California Speaker Fabian Nuñez and Adam Mendehlson, former deputy chief of staff to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Mercury is paid by corporate and union biggies to influence California's politicians; its past clients include Wal-Mart, Blue Shield, even the City of Los Angeles.
"We were almost 100 percent sure this was the guy," Ward recalls. "We were operating on the premise that the cops were gonna do nothing. We had to get evidence."
They visited trendy downtown bars, including the Edison and the Standard, hoping somebody had seen Gritzner getting hammered. Nothing. They drove by his house. No gray Jaguar.
They finally deduced that a man as successful and connected as Gritzner probably would take his Jag in to repair the damage.
The first place they called was Rusnak, a Jaguar dealer in Pasadena.
"Yeah, I wanna see if my Jaguar's gonna be ready," Ward said.
"What's your name?"
"Glenn Gritzner."
"Oh yeah, your car's gonna be ready Thursday."
Ward was tingling. He and Jimenez rushed to Pasadena and found the Jaguar getting a new coat of paint. Its hood and grille had already been replaced.
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Taking this conversation to a slightly different place, I will say that Don Ward and Josef Bray-Ali, both bicycle community leaders have been an inspiration to our family and I am grateful for their influence on my two adolescent children, a 13 year old boy and a 12 year old girl.
The three of us have gone on rides organized by Don and Josef. These rides have been a total eye opener for our family and in a small way have liberated us from the dependence on driving in some respects. Many parents are expected to drive their children everywhere. I do this plenty, but at some point, shuttling a kid around in a car ceases to be the right thing for pre-teens. It is diametrically opposed to what is supposed to be happening developmentally - developing independence and exploring one's surroundings, one's neighborhood and city; it is a healthy instinct. Some parents drop their kids off at a mall and let them walk around on their own a bit. While this gives a kid a bit of independence, it doesn't truly count as exploration of the city and it reinforces consumerism as fun.
Thanks to the rides, my son has embraced a way to be mobile and this has opened up his sense of where he can go and what he can do on his own. He has been inspired to bike to school on his own or explore the city with friends on bikes - good for the imagination, sense of possibility, independence and a bit of adventure, as well as physical fitness and good health.
I know that allowing my son to ride on his own carries risks and we do our best to mitigate them. He has been taught to always go out wearing a helmet and bright clothing, as well as having his cell phone, repair kit and tools in his back pack, and to follow all traffic laws (including and particularly red lights. On the rides, the only exception to following laws has been the red lights when very large groups are riding [and for us it has been slow rides], but that has already been explained here.)
Given that my family does not have the luxury of living in a neighborhood where we can walk to the local soda fountain or local park, we have always driven to those places. Now that the kids are a bit older and thanks to the new found love of bikes, they can now get there on their own. Thanks Don and Josef!
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This is difficult to give "roadblock" any credibility here or see him as a victim. You should all watch a documentary called, "To Live and Ride in LA". It shows what "roadblock" and the groups he organizes do when they ride in the streets of LA, they are BEGGING to be hit by a car! It displays him and several dozen swarming others rushing through red lights and stop signs all at the same time, swerving through traffic, disobeying basically every law put in place for cyclists. I'm an avid cyclist and have logged well over 10,000 miles through Los Angeles Country, I and all of those I ride with invest heavily in protective gear and very bright lights for our rides. These guys wear jean shorts and cycle caps on bikes with no brakes!! And on their night rides, most of them have little to no reflective or protective gear on. Not to take away that hit and runs are horrible but this article is one sided and does nothing for cycling safety. Hey Don, why don’t you put your cycling street cred to good use and advocate for bike safety and the use of safety equipment, lights, reflective material and cyclist awareness to opening doors, staying on roads with bike lanes, carrying proper identification including blood type and contact information for family members, riding at times of the day were you remove yourself from the dangers of drivers and the proper use of signals, stop signs and turn lanes that are REQUIRED of cyclists to use.
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@AVeeDub Hi Avee it's true that film doesnt help my case at all, but it's also old footage and about the LA bike scene in general not Wolfpack Hustle specifically. I think the LA bike scene has evolved now that more people are cycling and now that the city is doing some things to facilitate a place for cyclists on the roads. Most of all the film does not accurately speak to how Wolfpack Hustle runs it's rides or has evolved in the years since it's inception. In fact anyone that rides on Monday nights knows that for years (we've been going weekly since 2005) I've been giving the "speech" which is aimed at everyone but especially the young inner city and urban riders who are rebellious and may not understand just how dangerous it is to ride on LA streets. Getting the buy in of these riders is difficult but its important and I believe that organizing these rides actually helps create a safer rider. We ride late on Monday nights specifically because of the lack of traffic at the time. I talk about looking ahead and timing the lights so that no one makes stupid decisions at intersections, we always tell people to use helmets and bright lights, call out potholes cars left cars right cars back and never to run lights. wearing jeans is more about being a commuter and in fact its a lot more protective when you fall... Riding brakeless in my opinion is not smart and I personally would never ride brakeless or fixed gear. It's not my thing, but you really cant tell people what to do you can only try to inspire.
Like I said, Wolfpack Hustle has evolved and this year we worked closely with the city and LAPD to create permitted and legal race events in the city core where youngsters really have no other way to get exercise and community. We havent thrown an "alley cat" style race in years specifically because I realized that it's not beneficial for the cycling community in general but also dangerous for people who have nothing to do with cycling. next year we will be hosting more legally permitted races and events.
The night that I got hit, I was riding by myself with bright 200 lumen lights in front and a planet bike super flash in back. I had on arm warmers, dickies and a helmet. I was riding in the right lane and looking back to signal a lane change to the left turn lane when I saw the Jaguar approaching in the distance at high speed and swervy. I got plowed into from behind by what I could only assume was a person worried about getting caught drunk driving. I will probably never know but what I do know is, that incident changed me and I hope the conversation can continue to focus on the fact that 48%% of all collisions are hit and runs and rarely do any of them occur on group rides, but even if they do, they are still a crime.
This article is not about the unruly behavior of cyclists in Los Angeles, and it is sad and extremely callous that certain comments are made in order to derail the real conversation of a serious epidemic of hit and runs that effect individuals and their loved ones on a daily basis. Unless you have ridden a bicycle in an urban setting, or god forbid have been the victim of a hit and run, you cannot possibly pass judgement on anyone who survives such an incident and is strong enough to get back on a bicycle and ride again. How dare anyone suggest any human being deserves to get struck by a vehicle! How dare anyone assumes a human being on public streets needs to make way for you and your monster of a machine because you have somewhere you need to be! Cyclists pay taxes, support businesses, have friends and families just like any other human. In fact many cyclists also drive, and if more drivers also cycled, they would have a better understanding of the nature of this epidemic. It is incredibly disrespectful to the hundreds of humans on bicycles maimed and killed every year to make such false and vapid generalizations about all cyclists.
The article is not about the unruly and inconsiderate behavior of bike riders in our city, but the people complaining our making it about this behavior because we can't empathize with people who think they can be rude and inconsiderate of drivers who have to get to work on time.
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@sirvaldrin2002 Let me break it down for you: cyclists are humans just like you, trying to get somewhere just like you.
If you truly want every cyclist to cling to the curb, write your city council members and tell them you want parking to be removed and all roads to be free of potholes. Tell them you want separate infrastructure for bicycles so you won't to share the road. While you wait for their response, I invite you to travel anywhere in Los Angeles by bicycle. Perhaps a few days on the road will change your perspective of the elements a cyclists has to deal with on a daily basis. Maybe then you can recognize that cyclists are not being rude simply because they are being cautious. You are not entitled to the road simply because you are in a car.
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This story does not add up. If Mr. Gritzner hit and ran, then he committed a felony which should be prosecuted by the District Attorney's office and NOT the City Attorney's Office (the City Attorney can only prosecute misdemeanors). Did Mr. Ward notify the DA's office? Did Mr. Ward seek to have the City Attorney disqualify himself because of possible connections to Mr. Gritzner?
Again, this story just doesn't add up. If a felony has been committed then the DA's office should be involved.
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@ronrayton hi Ron, this is Don. As I have learned from this and many other cases since, State law re hit and run is a "wobbler" law. Meaning that the crime could be considered a felony or a misdemeanor depending on the severity of injury. In this case although my bike was smashed, I was carried on the car hood and thrown 50 feet and even though I was banged up hard and still suffer right shoulder and back pain, I did not suffer any broken bones and thus the law "wobbled" and the crime was considered a misdemeanor. Further complicating the issue was the fact that I did not get a look at the driver's face and could not provide a description. According to the detective and police report, Gritzner did in fact confess that he was the driver to his insurance company, but even that admission would not be allowed as evidence in criminal court because of attorney client privilege. Bottomline is that a person who is run down either needs to die or suffer broken bones or they need to get the plate and facial description to expect the police to do something.
I didn't know this about hit and run laws. It is criminal to allow someone to leave an accident cite regardless of injury. It's a lot like the lesser penalty for attempted murder. You didn't kill him, so we'll let you only do a couple of years to plan it better.
@sirvaldrin2002 Did you wake up this morning and just decide to be a nasty person or is this just who you are?
Awesome! In the valley I have a confrontation with a motorist about once every week. Ive been in three accidents, two car doors opening and one car crossing a lane hitting me in the side. The woman was leaving the scene until she saw me get up and note her license plate. A lot of this kind of arrogant behavior with motorists going on now. Pedestrians in crosswalks almost getting hit and motorists throwing up their arms as if to say, "You are an obstacle in my path".
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I've known way too many friends of mine get severely hurt from cars. I'm glad this dude caught this punk, but LA needs to make hit and runs a priority!
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".................He also founded Wolfpack Hustle, which takes high-speed group rides with a somewhat cavalier approach to traffic laws."
Wow, hes been lucky so far .
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Both of the assholes sound like real assholes. Ward rides his bike like he doesn't give a shit, and as a consequence, he was hit. Gritzner drives his Jaguar like he owns the fucking world, and, as a consquence, he ran somebody over. Both deserved what they got. Hit and Runs aren't the problem in this city. The problem is that this city is stuffed to the gills with assholes like Ward and Gritzner.
@GnomeChumpsky Clearly, 20,000 hit and runs are not a problem. I mean, we could easily double that and you still would not give a fuck, right? Have you ever seen the broken body of a neighbor lying bleeding in the street? Have you ever spent time with a friend as they try and find a way to heal their shattered body after a hit and run? You know that kids walking to school have to deal with the ever present threat of death via car drivers every morning, right?
The city exists for "the good life". I know that because it is written in huge letters on the ceiling at City Hall. It doesn't say jack shit about your point of view, so maybe we'll just use that as a reminder the next time we make a collective decision in this town.
THE POWER OF SMUG RUNS THROUGH ME!
@ubrayj02 @GnomeChumpsky Great, another asshole. Just what we need. Shoo, asshole, shoo. Fly away.
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Does anyone see the hyprocrisy here?A man who is responsible for organizing mass disobedience of traffic laws looks to law enforcement for help in traffic accident. Nobody has the right to run over another person because they're upset but don't be surprised of that outcome when you tempt fate. Riding within the law is already dangerous enough with the careless and unstable drivers on the road, don't add to it by riding like an entitled jerk.
@LACyclist Think about it like this: guy organizes "outlaw" super fast bicycle rides on a weekly basis, treating traffic signals as optional. Never suffers an injury while donig this, never causes a crash nor crashes into anyone. Same guy is abiding by the law and riding his bike along when a lobbyist DUI crashes into him and leaves him for dead. Does that fit into your "traffic karma" world view? Are we all sliding abacus pieces across some little rod in the sky, waiting for the hammer to fall for our sins?
@sirvaldrin2002 @ubrayj02 @LACyclist You are acting like a jerk. Does that mean I get to assault you in an unspecified manner some time in the future?
If the answer is yes, I can't wait!
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Encouraging more bike riding on city streets will result in more accidents and the bicyclists will be the people maimed or killed. The City, however, does not take into account the extent to which they lure bicyclists into harm's way with bike lanes and other measures which the City pretends benefit bicyclists.
The general problem of incompatible modes of transportation occupying the same road space was identified by the City 100 years ago. We've built a lot of roads in the last 100 years, but we have ignored this need to separate bikes from cars. Similarly, we still have trains crossing surface streets and are surprised every time some one is killed. It took Los Angeles decades to get the lethal Red Car tracks torn up and the deadly trolleys banished from surface streets. (But, now the KnowNothings of the 2000's are re-introducing trolleys to downtown. Oh, what joy for the personal injury attorneys when they sue the city and bring out all the City's old reports establishing the lethal nature of trolleys' sharing streets with cars and buses.) http://bit.ly/cJh5BP
There are psychological aspects to this car-bike problem, which support the position that bike lanes etc. are dangerous. Drivers do not "see" motorcycles and bicycles. The psychological invisibility of bicycles seems much greater than that of motorcycles, but it is a problem for both. It has been established that motorists can look directly at a motorcycle or bicycle which is in plain view and not "see" it.
It is a matter of expectations and anyone who designs streets needs to understand all the psychology behind Selective Perception. Failure to use available knowledge leads us to make myopic choices based upon political persuasion and not based on facts and science. Build bike lanes, but admit up front that you are setting up the situation where thousands will be maimed and many killed.
@abramsrl Were you paying attention to what you just read in the article? You know, the part where THOUSANDS ARE MAIMED AND MANY KILLED by the current transportation regime?Do you mean thousands more? I admit that the streets could be designed worse. Maybe reciprocating saw blades instead of crosswalk buttons?Take a look at one of the many videos about Copenhagen or the film Riding Bikes with the Dutch to see what a 1st world nation's transportation system ought to look like.
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Take that you automobile driver! I don't have to obey the law! I ride a bicycle. What a self serving piece of shit.
Glenn Gritzner's Twitter accounts: @ggritzner @glenngritzner. Let him know what a scumbag he is.
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Bycyclist MUST be held to higher safety standards. A high mayority do not wear helmet, light, reflective itmes, do not respect the street lights, you cant be a both a pedestrian and or motorist. A license should be given and they must carry an insurance card. I am NOT for Hit and Run but DO your part.
@Víctor Piña This is the most LOLs-worthy comment here.
I just hit a house with my car!
Did the house have a helmet on? They should license houses to exist in places where I might plow my car into them.
If we had to license everything a drunk irresponsible driver plowed into then we'd be safer, que no?
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I'm almost positive the guy in the picture is the guy who rides up Hyperion every morning blocking traffic. Thanks dude for making my morning drive more eventful. If he would at least move over when he could, it wouldn't be a problem. However, this guy thinks he is entitled to take up an entire lane all the time. He can't keep up with traffic so how can this be true? Too many bike riders are being major jerks and when they get hit, I have to ask, Did they deserve it?
@sirvaldrin2002 No one ever deserves to be hit with a car, and it is extremely callous that you would suggest otherwise. Especially for a reason like slowing down traffic. Would you think the driver of a car deserves to get hit for going slow? Of course not! Any person traveling on a public street is simply trying to get from one point to another, just like you. The road is not yours, it is all of ours.
When did I ever say he deserve anything. I collided with a car on my bike when I was a kid. I was severely injured. I wouldn't want that for anyone. However, when you act like an entitled jerk, Karma has a habit of biting you in the ass.
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@sirvaldrin2002 nope. Not me, but you should understand that the reason cyclists "take the lane" is because most of the lanes in LA are less than 12 feet wide... ie not share-able with cars. Cyclists need to maintain a 4-5 foot distance from parked cars to avoid what is called "the door zone." Furthermore they need to be visible to cross traffic and cars pulling out of drive ways. Taking the lane also allows cyclists to maneuver side to side to avoid potholes, curb grooves and trash that occupies the right side of the road on most LA streets. Hyperion is a treacherous stretch, I wish the city would implement wide, protected bike lanes through that important connection to Glendale and the river path but until then cyclists will be taking the lane to protect themselves.
As far as keeping up with traffic... You mean keeping up with drivers that speed from one red light to another? You might achieve 45mph for brief periods before you have to slam on your brakes for a red... but your average speed in any urban area is never going to be much more than the speed of good cyclist. If drivers would learn to calm themselves and time the lights - slow roll to avoid stopping - EVERYONE could get along and be safe.
I ride a bike, I understand about the lane issue, I'm talking about riders who don't move over ever even when there is room to move over. I'm talking about riders who get in way because they feel entitled to get in the way without a reason. I never get upset with riders who have no choice to get in the way.
@sirvaldrin2002 @roadblock Because you can see what they see. Because you are super driver. How long do you hold your breath before you start typing comments online?
Congratulations to Mr. Ward on not giving up. It's hard to not give up sometimes when you're hurting so much and it's costing so much personally, but it's something we must do. And, it's all just part of a bigger picture of corruption and privilege. The guy knew he could get by with it. He knew the laws. He knew his privilege "rights." He probably prayed at least once you were dead. I know that sounds cruel, but what does it take in a person's mind (and heart) to not even stop to render help or even call in or help anonymously for a possible victim? He worried about how to get his car fixed as fast as possible. They probably fired the guy who leaked the truth about picking up the car on Thursday. It's time we connected the dots on the privileged corruption and lack of focus on meaningful work for those hired to "protect and serve"--we need to change that to protect and serve the people rather that it's current protect and serve the already privileged. Best of health to you, Mr. Ward. I appreciate your persistence and desire to make sure this doesn't happen to others. You've sent a great message.
@hunterkcali Gritzner may be a jerk and a criminal, but let's not pretend that we know what was going on inside his mind and let's stop speculating about who was fired.
One thing that we do know is that the City Council has underfunded both the LAPD and the LAFD for years. If Angelenos want an LAPD that has time to enforce the laws, then Angelenos have to take action when Garcetti gives hundreds of millions of tax dollars to his developer cronies -- $52 Million to Eli Broad, tens of millions more to CIM Group. These are facts which we know from public records. Despite the rape of the City treasury, Garcetti is the front runner for Mayor.
If the LAPD had the manpower to "protect and serve" a city the size and complexity of LA, then there would be fewer Hit and Run's as people would know that they would be caught and prosecuted. Police investigations take time and manpower which requires we increase the LAPD budget. Also, threatening to privatize the police pensions will do nothing to attract competent officers in the future. If you don't like the ways LA is run, (and who does other than the crooks?), then stop electing people like Garcetti, Perry, Wesson and Labonge, Greuel, Reyes, Trutanich, and their ilk.
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@abramsrl I agree. I would like to see the LAPD implement a bigger presence on the streets in terms of traffic calming. Instead, what has been happening is the LAPD under staffs it's traffic division, and actually has been pro-actively advocating for speed limit increases which at the end of the day do nothing more than serve to frustrate the hell out of drivers by giving them the impression that if they are not driving at the rate of speed suggested by big bold faced type on a sign, they are not getting optimum performance out of their commute. The REALITY is that even with no traffic what so ever, a car cannot average much more than 20 mph in any urban setting across the globe. We need to be realistic about speed limits. Speed kills both in impact and reaction time.
Since most car trips (50%%) are less than a very bike-able 3 miles in distance we should also be working to facilitate more local trips by bicycle. It would reduce pollution, traffic, noise, death and obesity. Not to mention, it would conserve a LOT of city resources that are used to maintain streets destroyed by every trip made by 2 ton automobiles. The most conservative thing we can do is to afford people safe and efficient travel when they decide to use their own two feet.
@sirvaldrin2002 @roadblock You don't need a car to carry kids in LA and run errands. You are trying to play that everyman argument and pretend like your current sad little life is the only one available to everyone.
Get the right bike and you can carry just about anything you need anywhere you need it to be in LA.
@sirvaldrin2002 @roadblock I'm not punishing anyone. on the contrary, I am relieving you of yet another car clogging the traffic grid. I know plenty of parents who ride bicycles and in fact bring their kids on bikes with them. Entire countries the size of Los Angeles Country have traffic grids that encourage the population to use people powered transportation and do just fine. Most car trips in america are less than 3 miles in distance. That is totally reasonable for us to accomplish here.
While I like what you are saying, your ideas a little pie in skyish. I have kids, I have to take them places and quickly. I have run errands like grab something to feed said children. If we were all single, I'd agree with you completely. What most of us are complaining about is not that you and others like riding your bike, I like riding mine when I have time, but the inconsiderate behavior that many hard core bike riders exhibit on a daily basis. If you choose to ride a bike to work or elsewhere, that's great, but don't punish us by unnecessarily blocking traffic just because you have the "right" to block traffic.
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While I agree with the points of view on drunk drivers (although I disagree with "foundderosa" that drunk riders only endanger themselves - no, their stupid moves can cause a driver to swerve and endanger others), and the issue of lack of consideration by drivers for riders, you lost about 50% of my sympathy with the following sentence -
"He also founded Wolfpack Hustle, which takes high-speed group rides with a somewhat cavalier approach to traffic laws."
So it only goes one way? Only drivers are supposed to be considerate? Riders are free to ignore traffic laws and still expect to be respected? I am sick to death of bicyclists and motorcyclists considering their riding a "sport" and playing that sport on public highways! How many accidents are caused by these fools with their attitude of "ride it like you stole it" (a favorite among certain motorcyclists friends whose FB posts I won't even respond to because I'll go on for days about their lack of respect for other vehicles on the road)
@coralsurf While you may have a point that all people in transit should obey traffic laws, motorcycles and bicycles are assuming far more risk on the road and are more susceptible to bodily injury based on their chosen form of transportation. It is all too common that people's first reaction to a story like this is to blame cyclists and point out their alleged disregard for the law, but there are a lot of drivers that simply do not know the laws regarding interactions with cyclists. There are also plenty of cyclists that do obey traffic laws, but commonly they are cast aside while a few unruly cyclists will represent the entire cycling community.
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I like that you brought up the issue of a double standard by these jerks who ride bikes. Too many times I've seen these guys taking up an entire lane during rush hour. They don't stop at stop lights and make many illegal manuvers. If they are equal than act equal.
@sirvaldrin2002 Fact: not all people who ride bikes are jerks. Fact: it is not illegal to ride in the center of the lane, regardless of time or place. Perhaps you should research the California vehicle codes before assuming cars have priority over all roads at all times. It is literally impossible for cyclists to be equal to a thousand pounds of steel, glass, and flammable liquids. In fact, drivers should take extra care because cyclists are unprotected and everyone knows they are not capable of accelerating as quickly as cars. If you want to drive fast and only with cars, there are plenty of freeways to choose from!
@jhvu74 @sirvaldrin2002 Great point! Motorists often fail to recognize that cyclists have a right to the road and neglect the reality that cyclists are human powered. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to clime hills, keep up with traffic, and be aware of all things around them at all times. It takes very little energy to put on your blinker, change lanes, and accelerate safely past a cyclist.
This negative perspective of cyclists and pedestrians from motorists contributes directly to the hit and run epidemic that is plaguing our city. If this epidemic is going to slow down, the first step is returning the human element to all commuters in all forms across Los Angeles.
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@sirvaldrin2002 @catwalshak Why is it so hard to pass slower traffic? If I see a bicyclist taking his taking a lane for whatever reason, he's doing so within his rights and there's usually a good reason for it. If I'm driving a car, it's usually pretty easy to pass him with at least three feet of space like it recommends in the DMV guide. People who don't respect the right of bikes to use roadways are really the ones who "think they own the road."
@sirvaldrin2002 @catwalshak As stated earlier, which you seemingly chose to ignore, it is often safer for bicycles to take up an entire lane because cars do not have enough room to pass safely, the road conditions are poor, and a variety of other reasons. Cyclists do, in fact, have the right to the entire lane. Cyclists do, in fact, have the right to ride safely on public streets. You clearly have no idea the obstacles cyclists have to deal with. You have also confused that following laws equal entitlement and arrogance. If anyone here is acting like an entitled jerk it is you. I challenge you to ride a bike anywhere in Los Angeles and then we can talk. Until then keep your mouth shut and have fun sitting in traffic!
You totally state my point. You are not equal to cars. I also didn't say all bike riders are rude jerks. Entitled, yes, too many of you guys feel entitled to slow traffic down for no better reason than I have the right. I understand when there is no room to move over, but too many times riders think that they do not have to move over. They take up a whole lane just to exercise their right to be an a hole. It's like driving 35 miles an hour in the fast lane, you can do it, but is it considerate of others? NO! Your arrogance is what people like me are complaining about. I don't care if you have the right to slow down traffic because you feel like it. We're complaining about the inconsiderate behavior of jerks like you feel that your rights make you justified to inconvenience others.
@sirvaldrin2002 @coralsurf the bicycle is not the same as car!
don weighs 225# add his bike say 25# and you have 250#
multiply that by 20 miles an hour and one has 5000# of force
now look at a car the car weighs 2500 # multiply that by just 10 miles an hour and we have 25,000 # of force. Cars and bicycles are not the same.
As to taking the lane, that is what the law requires and what sensible cyclist must do to be safe on the road. Also we have stop light laws because of automobiles and the enlighten state of Idaho has recognized the difference. The Idaho stop law allows cyclist to treat stop signs like a yield and traffic lights like stop signs. The reasons for traffic laws is the need for controlling inherently dangerous and deadly cars. Like i said below a drunk on a bicycle is likely to harm only himself. So no bicycles are not the same and do not represent anything close to the liability or danger inherently present in even moderately slow moving automobiles.
@sirvaldrin2002 @foundderosa Oh lord. The Idaho Stop Law is a statewide law that allows bike riders to treat Stop Signs as a Yield and Red Lights as a Stop Sign. Net effect? No more or less collisions - only fewer tickets for bike rider for doing what they are going to do anyway. It is not more dangerous for a bike rider to treat these traffic signals this way.
Jeez louise, you need to get over you childhood bike PTSD mainstream car-only groupthink and come on a ride with your kids one of these days. Skip the flak jackets, helmets, and orange flags and live for once. You want everyone to approve of your own fearful mindset - but we're not having it.
Let's hear it for streets that aren't scary death pits! Yaaaahooooo!
We not in Idaho, we're in Los Angeles. Idaho and Los Angels is no comparison. Our streets are over crowded with cars and people who need to get from point A to Point B in a hurry. You logic about drunk riders is also a fallacy. A drunk rider can cause a chain accident where several people can be injured. Your justifications for explaining away inconsiderate behavior of bike riders is rather humorous.
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@sirvaldrin2002 @coralsurf Oh my GOD! TAKING UP AN ENTIRE LANE! What are you to do? Change lanes? This crisis must be averted somehow - I know put out an APB that all car on bike and car on pedestrian crashes should be ignored with minimal to no penalties for hitting someone with your car and leaving them for dead.
There is no "equal" in state law nor in the de facto managed chaos of our road system.Measured objectively, the scofflaw cyclists pose no material nor moral threat to life and limb.I have seen motorists, on a daily basis, disobey every freaking rule of the road: speed limit, stop signs, red lights, right of way, you name it. The bottom line is that cars actually kill people while a bike rider "taking up a lane" (their legal right when there is no practicable alternative) means you have to wiggle your right ankle and rotate you hands on a steering wheel slightly. OH MY GOD! The humanity.I am really enjoying taking my self righteousness to new highs in this thread. Please, let's continue?
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@coralsurf You bring up a great point!Indeed, how many crashes with cars and non-Wolfpack humans has the Wolfpack hustle created? Do you know the number? How much property damage? How many broken bodies? How many shattered minds?From my personal experience with the Wolfpack Hustle, the only people I've seen injured on the ride are fellow hustlers who've been hit-and-run by late-night maniacs behind the wheel, or those unlucky enough to ride through a pothole and end up taking down some fellow riders.Bicyclists and pedestrians have a RIGHT to use the right of way.Motorists have a privilege - for which they must submit to testing (with an unfortunately low bar).
Why is this? Why the discrepancy? Maybe it is because automobiles weigh thousands of pounds and can maim and kill and destroy, and do so on an annual basis all over the City to the tune of millions of dollars and thousands of lives altered for the worse.
Cars are what kill. The Wolfpack Hustle has done more for public health and safety than any multi-million dollar "Watch the Road" or "My Kitchen, My Rules" ad campaign or school lunch program.Is this self righteous of me to say? I think so. It also happens to be the truth.
@ubrayj02 @coralsurf Yea, like a hundred riders going through red lights & if they get hit, it is their own fault. The laws apply to every vehicle, power & non-powered. SO STOP AT RED LIGHTS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!! I saw a ride run a stop sign into Sunset Blvd, he got hit & when the driver stop because his was damage, the rider so how found the energy to run. There is your hit&run!
@sirvaldrin2002 @ubrayj02 "EQUAL EQUAL EQUAL" - this always comes up. Nah, I will skip equal because bicyclists and pedestrians have a fundamental RIGHT to the right of way. Car drivers have a privilege granted by the state. A big difference. A HUGE difference.
My justification sounds like what happens before laws designed for a car-only system get amended to work for large group bike rides. Funeral processions and parades are run through traffic lights - as is traffic after a Rose Bowl or Dodger Stadium event. We make special exceptions for large groups of travellers on the road all the time. It isn't a crazy idea to admit that is is SAFER and FASTER for group bike rides of 300+ to go through an intersection in one big clump.
I am soooo looking down my nose at you right now from on high. Let the smug be with me.
@gsantana777 @sirvaldrin2002 @ubrayj02 remember, we are NOT talking about getting hit. we are talking about getting hit and then getting LEFT behind. It is leaving the scene that is the crime being discussed here.
@sirvaldrin2002 @ubrayj02 If you get hit while in an illegal situation, YOU ARE GUILTY AS ANYONE ELSE. YOUR CLUSTERFUCK JUST ENCOURAGES MORE OF YOUR SHIT. SO GO GET HIT FOR BEING STUPID. I totally agree that if a motorist hit anyone within their rights & legal right of way, should be prosecuted just as you guys running stop lights, stop signs & break every other transportation law in your elitist head. This is not the country or third world country, this a major city that the majority pay the taxes are non-riders. Yet, you get a large amount of attention for being BIG MOUTH MINORITY.
So you want to be treated as equal to a vehicle but only when it is convenient for you. So we should understand your inconsiderate behavior while we are slowed down and inconvenienced by you. Your justifications sounds like the double standard most republicans use to justify their need to protect the rich from taxation.
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@gsantana777 @ubrayj02 @coralsurf A bike is not a vehicle, it's a device, and even if it were a vehicle it still wouldn't make assault or homicide okay.Rides run stop lights because, like funeral processions, it is actually a huge clusterfuck to have everyone stop and start through four lights. I have seen it happen, and it destroys traffic for a long time. Going through in one go is the safest and best way to manage a group of 300+ riders. Whether the law is in accordance with best practices is another point - but I have seen rides of all sizes in LA since 2005, hundreds of ride by my count, and this is the truth.Does that mean we all "deserve" it when our bodies are destroyed riding by ourselves on Glendale Blvd.?
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