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Gay Happiness, the New Frontier

Are mental and physical health problems really a reaction to bigotry?

Why do gay men have higher rates of substance abuse, depression, suicide, smoking and sexually transmitted disease — creating a subgroup that is less happy and healthy than the general population?

The Institute of Medicine's "The Health of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender People: Building a Foundation for Better Understanding," a 2011 review of numerous major studies, noted that heavy drug or alcohol use — common in the gay culture preceding sex — is a risk factor for HIV transmissions.

James Brandon, actor and co-founder of I Am Love: Being abused as a child "was an easy way to ... not take responsibility for myself."
PHOTO BY ANNE FISHBEIN
James Brandon, actor and co-founder of I Am Love: Being abused as a child "was an easy way to ... not take responsibility for myself."
Andrew Extein, of Silver Lake, finds West Hollywood's gay mecca "not very life-affirming."
PHOTO BY ANNE FISHBEIN
Andrew Extein, of Silver Lake, finds West Hollywood's gay mecca "not very life-affirming."

Simply put, people who get too high lose their judgment and have unprotected sex, known in gay culture as "barebacking."

The panel also mentions Meyer's minority stress model, citing societal discrimination as an explanation for mental health problems among gay men. Meyer, when asked if gay men themselves play a role in their mental and physical health troubles, responds, "I don't like to put it that way." He avoids discussing the notion that decades of focus among gays on their victimization by the outside world might be a piece of the problem.

From the late 1970s to the early '90s, Buffalo State College sociology professor Thomas S. Weinberg conducted a longitudinal study on the drinking habits of gay men in Southern California. Compared with today, it was an era of heightened homophobia. At the study's end, Weinberg rejected the widely promoted idea that a homophobic society was driving gay men to excessive drink. Instead, he found, abuse of alcohol was far more affected by a man's own choice — the friends he kept.

"It's basically a subcultural thing," Weinberg says, "and so much of gay culture is steeped in alcohol."

His longitudinal findings, after tracking people for more than a decade, made Weinberg a strong proponent of "reference group theory," which says that our close friends and associates become strong reference points for how we should conduct our lives.

If a 28-year-old gay man hangs out with heavy drinkers, for example, over time there's a good chance he'll mimic his friends. Conversely, if the 28-year-old socializes with people who don't emphasize drinking, there's a good chance he'll drink moderately over the years, if at all.

Beverly Hills psychologist Alan Downs, in his well-received book The Velvet Rage: Overcoming the Pain of Growing Up Gay in a Straight Man's World, which offers ways for gay men to live more authentic and healthier lives, urges gay men to "carefully guard and assess those individuals you allow into your inner circle of intimacy. Their influence is monumental."

Young guys who run with a promiscuous crowd in Los Angeles or West Hollywood and who engage in barebacking — two high-risk factors for getting HIV — are setting a norm for themselves and others, although they may not realize it. Weinberg argues that, as long as they choose that crowd, chances are good that these young men will act like their peers — dramatically upping the chances they will become HIV-positive.

And once that happens, life alters dramatically. AIDS Healthcare's Weinstein notes that HIV treatment is "serious chemotherapy" and not "just a matter of popping a pill, and I don't know anyone who got infected who just said, 'It's nothing.' There are a lot of psychological effects in which people ask, 'Will anyone love me?' 'What will I tell my mother?' 'What will I tell my friends?' 'What do I tell a date?' 'Do I want to have a relationship with someone who's [HIV]-negative?' "

Weinstein and Weinberg are relatively rare voices. But as Weinberg explains, "Choice is very important. We choose our friends and relationships."

On a hot, bright day in Studio City, James Brandon sits in the shade outside the Aroma Café with friend Nic Arnzen. For six years, Brandon and Arnzen have been touring the world with Terrence McNally's play Corpus Christi, which posits Jesus as a gay man living in modern-day Texas. Arnzen is the director and a cast member. Brandon plays Jesus.

Arnzen lives with a partner and their two adopted children, and Brandon lives in an American midcentury home with his boyfriend in Sherman Oaks. The two are editing a documentary about the play's world-tour experiences, titled Corpus Christi: Playing With Redemption, while preparing to open the play in the Midwest. Amidst this, they are launching the "self-empowerment" campaign I Am Love.

The two men exemplify friends whose influence upon one other has been positive. Through their play, their documentary and their new campaign, they hope to reduce homophobia in the religious world, and perhaps improve life a bit for all.

Over the years, Brandon and Arnzen began noticing that McNally's play was having an emotional, even spiritual, effect on cast members and some in the heavily LGBT audiences. After the play, people openly discussed love, self-acceptance and forgiveness — messages heard from Jesus' character in the play.

Brandon and Arnzen wanted the larger gay community to benefit from such healing and spiritual concepts, but knew that religious leaders' decades of attacks on gays had driven many of them away from forms of spirituality. They decided to confront anti-gay religious attitudes with love, not antagonism.

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34 comments
otimepilot
otimepilot

Great Article and a very similar topic I've had with a number of my gay friends.  Where is the next frontier for the gay society?  I've said some of the things above, although in such a well written manner, and been called bigoted.  The point I make is why do gays feel the need to self-segregate?  I've recently needed help, my life was a mess, but I live on the outskirts of Los Angeles. I tried to find help in the gay society, classes, meetings, etc. but they were hard to get to, and most costly.  I decided to turn to my own hometown, and found many people to be accepting. I found that I'm more like the guys of my hometown then I'm like the rest of gay society.  My life has improved greatly in the past year and I'm continuing to make strides.   Maybe I'm lucky, my hometown isn't that homophobic as originally thought. However, I feel we don't need to self-segregate or feel like we're different from other people.....because we're not.

greenmuse
greenmuse

"Are mental and physical health problems really a reaction to bigotry?" And hey let's not forget sexism, guys. 

Because imagine being a young LESBIAN, where you aren't even important enough to merit inclusion in this article. 

44ngaynLA
44ngaynLA like.author.displayName 1 Like

I really liked the article.  I moved to LA at 24 and in the 90's.  The only technology then was party lines and putting an ad in LA weekly.  You had to go out to be social and that meant a gay bar.  If you didn't want to drink you really did not have to, no one would notice the difference between a coke or a whisky and coke.

Today is different you can meet on line or on an app on your phone.  The internet was great for information for new gay people coming out to learn about and meet others.  But at the same time the internet was the "death " of social meeting.  Now young people know it is easier to just pick up your phone, meet for sex, you don't have to spend money on a bar, and you can even buy your drugs from the same person if they "party".  No one has social skills of just going out to meet friends and have a good time without it being sexual.

I also agree on the subcultural attitudes within the gay community.  Lesbians never really are seen at gay bars unless for someones birthday; excluded.  Muscle bears will never hang out with the "twinks" from Weho; Exclusion.  The obese and out of shape at home on line posting pictures of someone else "catfishing" people to come over for sex. Exluded  Its a mess.  Exclusion within our own group is the biggest problem, everyone puts down the other groups but WE ARE ALL GAY.

No one just wants to say "Hi" and not have it mean something without the subtext of ; look at me, have sex with me, look what I'm wearing, look at my car, look at my career and let me talk about it because these things are who I think I am.  But at the same time they cannot have a conversation for more than 5 minutes about anything else.

I now stay away from WEHO and other than meeting friends in Silverlake once a week, I pretty much found happiness by doing things in the "straight world" outside of the bubble of WEHO and am much happier.  I may be gay in the bedroom, but outside of that I have gay and straight friends, go do as much outside activities and go to all types of invited house parties, bbq's, and social events in the straight realm as possible.

We do need more guidence with rolemodels than the internet and apps on our phones provide us today.

I am not religious as well, but following the "group" is not leading us to where we could be by a long shot.  It could just start by saying "hello" to someone different than yourself and at least its a step to learn to appreciate the differences of people instead of smashing them to be one paticular fit that is not even a realistic vision of what we are as group.

scottzwartz
scottzwartz topcommenter

@44ngaynLA  We lost a huge asset with AIDS.  Things were definitely different pre AIDS and pre Social Media.  Those men who would presumably be some of today's older role models died too young.

8709 would probably be as weird to the young Gays of today as much of the on-line hook-ups are for the older generation.

In some ways, Gays are facing assimilation similar to what ethnic minorities like Jews, Irish and Italians experienced in the 20th Century.

There is one thing that I hope this generation remembers -- it is Gay Liberation and not Let's pretend were identical to Straights.  We did not become liberated so that we could then go back into another type of repressive closet where everyone has to be "married" in order not to be shunned as a slut.  

Let's face it. Straight men cheat so much as men are by nature promiscuous, and we are fortunate that due to the nature of being Gay, we can have tons of sex partners.  There are many benefits to society when Gays interact across all age, ethnic, racial, and religious backgrounds.  We are also free to decide, "been there done that" and settle down but on our own terms and not live under some new conservatism imposed upon us the new morality police which seems to be developing within the Gay "leadership."
 

aldenljackson
aldenljackson

There is a dearth of ambition in the community that I think fuels this lifestyle as well.

lbreuning
lbreuning

Thank you for courageously helping people move toward their own well-being instead of being stuck in victim-thinking. I am planning to carry this article with me all the time to help me when I get trapped in a conversation with a victimologist. 

Loretta Breuning

Meet Your Happy Chemicals

www.MeetYourHappyChemicals.com

gabrielmcgowan
gabrielmcgowan

Thanks for an interesting article on happiness, health, and tangentially, HIV/AIDS in the gay community.

 

I'd like to add one specific comment re "Young guys who run with a promiscuous crowd in Los Angeles or West Hollywood and who engage in barebacking — two high-risk factors for getting HIV — are setting a norm for themselves and others, although they may not realize it. Weinberg argues that, as long as they choose that crowd, chances are good that these young men will act like their peers — dramatically upping the chances they will become HIV-positive."

 

This statement seems to border on stigmatizing the act of having sex -- as if the choice to "run with a promiscuous crowd" is somehow a negative one.

 

While few would argue that unprotected sex is a higher-risk behavior that can lead to HIV infection, what seems to be missing is a sex-positive perspective. That is, sex can be healthy and fulfilling -- key to the happiness and satisfaction that men, gay or straight, seek. Safer sex? Certainly. Less safe sex that's fueled solely by misuse of alcohol or drugs or driven by addiction? Of course not. But safer sex, whether it's frequent or not, can be a key part of a happy, healthy life for any man.

 

Gabriel McGowan

Director of Communications

AIDS Project Los Angeles

VInnie
VInnie like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I think, or hope what he is intending to say is that there is a balance between both social and independent stressors. What I've noticed as a gay man growing up in Los Angeles is that societal bigotry has caused homosexuals to create what would be considered a social safe haven (i.e. West Hollywood) in which people are free to walk around, hold hands, etc without being stared at or heckled. The downside to this safe haven is that these concentrated environments tend to have a hive mind affect (just like it would any culture) in which people hyper focus on whatever most commonly appeals to that culture. In religious cultures it is obviously their bible and in ours it is obviously "fun" and the social expression of our sexuality, (meaning gender preference, not just sex), muscle build (I say muscle build because there is nothing physically fit about a man who works out five days a week and then relegates that physical stress to binge drinking and cocaine). These cases lead to what you see now. 

 

It should be noted that I am a gay man who is 23 and agnostic. While I don't necessarily see religion or spirituality as backbone needed for my morality (which is very traditional morality) I can see how this is an outreach for people who would need such a tool. I am constantly ridiculed by my culture for my traditional needs and I'm seen as a prude. You are hearing it from the horses mouth that being ostracized and alienated happens on both sides.

 

It is societies fault for forcing us into safe havens, but it is our choice what we do when we're inside. Heterosexuals rarely if ever ridicule us for not having six packs, clean haircuts and certainly not for the hair on our bodies. These we need to take responsibility for.

 

I have made it my choice a year or so back to exclude myself from West Hollywood. I respect what it offers people but I had an epiphany that I'd rather be around a society in which I have one thing uncommon with rather than one where I have only one thing in common with.

patrick.range.mcdonald
patrick.range.mcdonald like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @VInnie Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Vinnie. I wrote the piece for all gay men, but I particularly tried to gear it towards gay men in the 20s and 30s. It seems you got something from it, and that's what makes my day as a journalist--and inspires me to continue with my work. I would suggest that you stick by your guns and never sell out your own values and ideals. I think you'll receive a lot of satisfaction and joy down the road by living that way. I've often taken the road less traveled, and it's been a wonderful, self-satisfying experience that I have never regretted. 

 

Take care,

Patrick Range McDonald

LA Weekly

aldenljackson
aldenljackson like.author.displayName 1 Like

@VInnie I don't fit the mold of West Hollywood at all. I'm not slim. I don't drink. I don't smoke. I dress a little more avant garde. I've never even tried to go clubbing or much else over there. Just wanted you to know you're not alone. 

Dissappointed
Dissappointed like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Sheep's Clothing

The stressors mentioned in this article are not just part of some generalized, collective victim identity. The stressors are physically, socially, politically and often violently manifested in this culture and around the world.  I was bullied as a young gay man, pushed around, spit on and believed I was going to hell because that's what the religion I was brought up in taught me to believe.  My own father told me that homosexuality was second only to murder in the eyes of the lord.  A childhood friend of mine was beaten and raped by group of straight boys for being gay.  He grew up to be promiscuous and a heavy drinker - as I'm sure many people who are sexually exploited at a young age grow up to be (gay or straight) - and eventually died of AIDS.  Most of the gay men I know have had very real experiences with bigotry and hatred in their life, so to imply that minority stressors are some kind of self imposed excuse to languish in addiction and self-pity is to turn a biased and blind eye to reality.

I'm all for taking responsibility for yourself as an adult and I am very leery of the lifestyle promoted in communities like West Hollywood, but the implication that if you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, go to church and maybe find a partner the addictions and the social and mental issues that plague LGBT communities (not to mention the political struggles) will suddenly diminish is not only misguided, but sounds like a dangerous game of blame the victim - a game that has been going on for quite sometime from outside the community.

I was very intrigued by the title of the article and hopeful that I might find a real exploration of positive role models for LGBT people, but instead find some kind of admonishment for bad behavior and anecdotes about the decadent and self-destructive gay life in WeHo.  Not exactly a new angle nor helpful in any way that I can see.

patrick.range.mcdonald
patrick.range.mcdonald

 @Dissappointed Hi Disappointed. Much thanks for reading. I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed. I made a point of offering some solutions, but I only had 4,000 words to write this piece and there was a lot of information to cover.

 

The solutions involved the section with Thomas Weinberg and being aware of certain choices, the ideas of spirituality (which you appear to be confusing with religion when you mention going to church, but maybe I'm wrong about what you're implying), and talking about ideas of self-empowerment.

 

From my experience, we need to be first aware of problems before we can move forward with solutions, so that's why I mentioned the problems. I was certainly not trying to admonish anyone. That was never my intention.

 

I was simply laying everything out there, which many gay leaders and other folks don't want to discuss publicly. But if we don't discuss problems openly and publicly, we'll continue to do those problematic things. I would also say that there are several positive role models in the piece, especially James Brandon. But you also had Matthew Mishory, Tony Sweet, and several others speaking their truth and looking for another way. History is filled with positive gay role models as well, and I've been undertaking a regular column to showcase them.

 

Take care, and hope you're well.

Patrick Range McDonald,

LA Weekly

jasons0660
jasons0660 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

I think the gay scene itself contributes to depression.  Most gay meeting places are built on a sex act.  I can't think of anything more depressing than building your social life on a sex act.  There's also a lot of appearance fascism on the gay scene - if you don't look a certain way, you're not wanted.  It's bound to make you feel depressed when you're rejected simply for not looking a certain way.

 

I would recommend that gay men get out of the gay scene.  Go and mix with the mainstream.  The mainstream is more balanced and less appearance-obsessed.

mgerardy1
mgerardy1

@jasons0660 Exactly I could not agree more. When I came out - 25 years ago - I did not sell-out and go become influenced by a bunch of so-called friends and join in the party and sex lifestyle. Instead I build a successful career living nearly my entire life only in the mainstream, earned my master degree and built a home. Don't understand why other gay men see being gay as an entirely different identity and alternative way to live your life. I cannot fathom what is to be gained by going to a gay bar: noise and a bunch of phony baloney. I will tell you what's real: Deadlines. Mortgage payments. Retirement. Health Care. A 401k. Power Tools. Responsibility. Sure, of course I am making value judgments. Some folks are going to defend bathhouses, poppers, cruisy parks, drugs and anonymous sex as a gay birthright. For those who do, how's that working out for ya? 

Years ago was talking with some kid who said that he was afraid to come out because he was afraid he would get HIV and become addicted to Meth. Well, here is a tip - DON'T! If you know people who are, then run like hell the other way. If all of your gay friends are, then make friends with straight people until you can find decent gay people who are not going to bring you down. Good God some people! Don't you have a mind of your own! Define what "gay" is on your own terms, not some pretty loser that you admire because he has the worst attitude.

I don't understand the passive-aggressiveness that so many gay men have who act like they do not have any control over their lives. I understand depression, because I live it every day. I understand bullying, because my experience could have been a made-for-tv movie considering the severity and duration - in the rural Midwest of all places. I understand alcoholic fathers and lack of acceptance. What I do not understand are other gay men that knowingly make self-inflicted wounds and choices. It is like rebelling against society by drinking poison and hoping that homophobes and everyone that ever hurt you in your life will all die. 

Maybe higher education saved me from the trap of directionless hedonism. Maybe it was setting goals. Maybe it was growing up in a rural small town world and never acquiring a taste for the bright lights big city fast life. Maybe it was the good friends that I made, a combination of both straight and gay friends who made healthy choices in life. Maybe it was just me. Who knows, but what I do know is that it took effort, and still does, to always be and do responsible things instead of giving in and get going out and finding sex, booze or  or drugs. That is the easy way out, a cop-out and an feel-sorry-for-me excuse. 

I can try to find some compassion toward my fellow gay counterparts who truly live a "gay lifestyle", but it is really difficult for me to have much empathy when I have worked hard my entire life, I didn't party my entire life away. For the most part, I have done the right and wholesome thing my entire life - and there is no shortage of gay men living the gay lifestyle who cannot wait to condemn me for my success, especially if they even feel one iota of judgment or even their own insecurity. Sometimes the rewards for being a good boy are loneliness and in many cases, having absolutely nothing in common with most gay men to the point of not being able to relate to certain outlooks and perceptions - except that we are both attracted to the same gender. While success comes with a price, at least I know that I am healthy, comfortable, secure and safe. A lot of gay men living the party lifestyle on disposable jobs cannot say the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g14g-Bg86uU


scottzwartz
scottzwartz topcommenter

@jasons0660 The important aspect of Gay Liberation is that we are free to fashion our own lives.  Not being accepted by a group where you wish to belong is very hard on anyone.  Anger and depression are standard responses. 

aldenljackson
aldenljackson like.author.displayName 1 Like

@jasons0660 Yes. Even the gay subcultures require you act or look a certain way. It's awful.

MapYourDestiny
MapYourDestiny

@RobWeissMSW Such a great article. Thanks for sharing it.

tiooonnn
tiooonnn

@prmcdonald congrats on making the cover! picked up a copy. Good read. Happiness/self-unfufillment are emotions EVERYONE feels.

PRMcDonald
PRMcDonald

@tiooonnn Thanks, Tion. You're right.

BeNice
BeNice

Lucas, maybe you'd be more happy and fulfilled by finding another way to make a living rather then being a vehicle for annonomous, cowardly hate.

cllrdr
cllrdr like.author.displayName 1 Like

This is a very interesting and obviously sincere article. But "spirituality" is as much an addiction as booze. I hope I'm not the only one who remembers that con-woman Louise Hay.

 

As for the rest --

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxsrPhq8rf0

patrick.range.mcdonald
patrick.range.mcdonald

 @cllrdr Hi Cllrdr, Thanks for reading and your comments. And thanks to everyone for reading and their comments. I'm not exactly sure how spirituality is an addiction. That doesn't sound true to me, and I don't think I've ever seen spirituality listed as an addiction by medical professionals somewhere. Also, there are many, many people who have improved their lives through spirituality--and I'm not talking religion. Addictions tend to damage or destroy lives one way or another. 

 

You're also doing something that's very common among people who mix up personalities with certain principles. I don't know anything about Louise Hay, but why would anyone allow one person's actions take something away that's potentially good for you? 

 

Thanks for the video, although I'm not sure how it fits with this article. There's always time to have fun, but let's take the dialogue up another notch for the moment, shall we? We all have wonderful gifts to share with the world, so how do we get there in a way that's healthy and fulfilling and true? This article is one attempt to start that dialogue.

 

Take care,

Patrick Range McDonald,

LA Weekly

scottzwartz
scottzwartz topcommenter

@patrick.range.mcdonald @cllrdr   You've got to be a lot older to remember Louise Hays.  I believe that he is merely saying that "spirituality" can be a front for a con artist.  I remember when some in WeHo were into spirituality and believed that they would not get AIDS because they mentally surrounded themselves with The White Light.  They're dead now.  Spirituality can kill.

Martin Silva
Martin Silva like.author.displayName 1 Like

So we're going to blame society for drug and alcohol abuse? No personal responsibility? Nice.

mgerardy1
mgerardy1

@Martin Silva  I was thinking the same thing. I think somewhere between tough love, empathy but not coddling or accepting excuses is where a lot of people need an honest kick in the seat of the pants to bring themselves up in the world. 

Annoyed
Annoyed like.author.displayName 1 Like

Matthew Mishory says, "Too many gay men are competing with each other and tearing each other down...." Absolutely true! One needs to go no further than wehoconfidential.com to see this. Being the outcast bullied gay kid in your high school is nothing compared to the hate spewed on that website.  The website is the embodiment of the self-hatred endured (and thus projected onto others) by gay men in West Hollywood. Instead of making choices to take control of their lives, these gay men would rather put down others. It’s then and only then their miserable lives seem less miserable in comparison. I’m glad gay culture is dying. We once needed a community we felt a part of; that would protect us, and stand with us in the battle against bigotry and hatred. Now we need loving a loving family and friends, gay and straight, to protect us from the community (as exemplified by wehoconfidential). 

 

Thomas Robert Guzowski
Thomas Robert Guzowski

I don't care for the word reaction. I feel it is more of an effect brought on by bigotry. When people are raised in a culture to feel shame, guilt, etc. they shrink to the outskirts of society--as a racist and bigoted culture would prefer them to be. Unfortunately, society then has the audacity to ask them, why don't you get a real relationship, get off drugs, etc. Perhaps because society won't allow them to take ownership of who they are.

abramsrl
abramsrl topcommenter

Since being psychologically abused as a child causes psychological problems for adults, one knows that we Gays will have a rather high incidence of psychological issues.  One grows up in a society where its leaders in Congress and in churches and often in our own homes blame everything on us including 9-11. In fact, aren't we the ones who coined the phrase, "He has issues."

 

My party days are over and I loved them when I had them, but they were not the ones of desperation and drugs that make the news. We were mostly young professionals and business owners with some med students, law students, etc.  For obvious reasons, age stratification in the Gay community is not the same as in the Straight world.  We had our businesses to run in addition to our daily gym visits.  Since I don't drink or do drugs, if drug abuse was happening on a large scale, I did not really notice.

 

If there is one thing I do know about being Gay, it is that Gay is Good.  Gay is Great!  I do not recall deciding to be Gay, but if I did make that choice, it was the best choice I ever made in my entire life.  If I get to go around again and get to chose, Yes, I choose to be Gay.  Hurray for being Gay!!!

aldenljackson
aldenljackson like.author.displayName 1 Like

@abramsrl It's totally different when you have direction in your life. I feel like so many young gay men have no ambition. So many work crummy retail jobs with no exit plan. I think that is a huge component that the author missed. When I talk to guys and ask about school or work it's hardly ever any passion there. Maybe it's cause I only talk to guys on the internet and I know it's not the best place to try to build something non sexual but am very shy when initiate contact in person...

mgerardy1
mgerardy1

@aldenljackson @abramsrl   My perception is that there are some people who come out and make being gay their entire life. It affects their choice of friends, their goals in life, where they live, how they live, their interests, hobbies, taste in music and career or lack thereof. While this is not always a negative, in many cases it is, for those stuck in dead-end jobs. 

While not a neat dichotomy, I believe than an emerging group of younger people are categorically rejecting the separatist dinosaur gay liberation homogenous paradigm and are instead integrating into mainstream society and have direction and ambition in life. The difficulty is that this emerging group does not have a centralized focal point by nature of being integrated, therefore are more invisible to both the larger society and amongst ourselves. 

scottzwartz
scottzwartz topcommenter

@aldenljackson @abramsrl   I suspect that you're right that meeting people on the Internet may be providing an unrepresentative sample of Gays.

Simply going out with no expectations tends to work better.  Just follow your interests, and if you focus on what interests you, even if it is as silly sounding as deciding which "Gay" restaurant has the best apple pie, leaving the Internet can be liberating.

 
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