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Los Angeles' Red-Light Ticket Ripoff

Cameras capture motorists and huge fines follow. Streets may not be safer

In October, a piece of what looked like junk mail sent to me from a P.O. box turned out to contain grainy pictures of my car, license plate and face in the classic L.A.-driving-trance position. I’d been captured on camera doing a “California roll” while making a right turn at a red light at Balboa Avenue and Vanowen Boulevard.

The damage was $446 plus a $64 traffic-school fee and a pricey separate fee that an eight-hour traffic school charged.

Red-light cameras are the RoboCops of traffic enforcement, shooting video 24/7. A staggering 37,000 red light–camera tickets were issued in L.A. through October 31, 2009, according to the LAPD. But do the cameras increase traffic safety — or just pick pockets while actually creating accidents?

The city’s 32 red-light cameras are placed at traffic choke points like Sepulveda and National, Sepulveda and Victory, Western and Washington, Manchester and Airport, Alvarado and Temple, Sunset and Cahuenga and Pico and Bundy. (For a map of all 32 camera-rigged corners, go to lapdonline.org/home/pdf_view/34638.)

“We put them where the traffic collisions were occurring,” says LAPD’s Sergeant Matthew MacWillie, of the Automated Photo Red Light Enforcement Program. “We looked at speeding, a contributing factor to red-light running. We looked at following too closely and DUI-related traffic collisions.”

Dual digital-video cameras capture the violations by snapping a car’s front and back plates. Of the tickets written, about 40 percent are “straight-through” red-light violations, and the rest are rolling right turns. While straight-throughs can cause potentially more serious T-bone crashes, MacWillie says, even during slower, “rolling” right turns, “the vehicle is close to the curb, so if the vehicle was to hit a pedestrian, it would cause significant injury.”

Citing a 40 percent decline in 2008 at intersections with cameras, MacWillie, a 27-year LAPD veteran and accident investigator, says, “Red light–related traffic collisions have dropped every year from 2005. Since the cameras went up, we haven’t had one fatal collision” at these intersections. In the two-year period before, there were nine fatalities at these intersections.”

Many drivers claim that the yellow light changes too quickly at camera-rigged intersections. Glenn Ogura of the city’s Department of Transportation says a yellow light must remain yellow for at least three seconds, but on roads with lower speed limits, the city extends the period to as much as 3.9 seconds. “We don’t reduce yellow time to catch people,” he insists.

American Traffic Solutions, which maintains the city’s cameras and processes the photos, refused an interview request. However, camera citations have been struck down in other California communities that were paying the camera operators on the basis of the number of tickets they issued instead of a flat fee, which is how L.A. handles it. L.A. so far has not been successfully challenged, says MacWillie, because, “It’s not about revenue, it’s about traffic safety.”

But, he concedes, “If it didn’t pay for itself, the city would probably do away with [the camera system].”

In fact, the city’s take from these tickets skyrocketed to $4 million this year, while operational costs ran about $2.5 million. MacWillie says that from a $446 ticket, the state gets $229, L.A. gets about $148, and L.A. County gets $68.

As three layers of government make money off a single ticket, some studies show that red-light cameras cause accidents. Costa Mesa reported a 13 percent increase in total collisions and a 20 percent increase in rear-end collisions after cameras were installed. In 2008, a University of South Florida study found the same. “Red-light cameras don’t work,” says USF Professor Barbara Langland-Orban. “They increase crashes and injuries as drivers attempt to abruptly stop at camera intersections” after spotting the cameras.

In fact, in a recent KCBS computer analysis of L.A. red-light cameras, reporter David Goldstein found that 20 of the city’s 32 camera-rigged intersections have had more accidents, not fewer.

LAPD Officer Rafael Santos, who shows the camera evidence in court and has investigated his share of fatal accidents, is convinced the use of a camera changes behavior. He says, “I love it — I live here, my family lives here. It saves lives.”

The city purports to have a “99 percent” success rate against motorists who try to have their tickets tossed out. A man named Derek, who stood recently in an hourlong line at the Van Nuys Courthouse to turn in his traffic-school completion form, says, “I checked with my attorney, and he told me to forget about it.”

But Joe Roth, a Venice film producer, has a more heated response. He says he was at the corner of Victory Boulevard and Laurel Canyon Boulevard, “making a right on red. The car to my left was running the red light. I got the ticket.”

Roth arranged to plead no contest and attend traffic school but says, “I’m going to draft a bunch of letters.” At traffic lights now, he says, “I just come to a full stop. I’m not turning right on red. I’ve noticed around the city, people won’t turn. Do I need to pay $500 to make a right-hand turn?”

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  • 08/03/2011 8:51:00 PM

    Red Light Camera tickets are illegal. no were in the constitution is it allowed to place financial bounties on Sovergn citizens when they dont offer financial bounties for illegal alions. The judge has reconised this problem already I feel because you can read about it at: http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2624.asp ((( Can you say judisial fraud ?)))

  • 08/03/2011 8:45:00 PM

    ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITH ALL DUE RESPECT Please Reply with your thought Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachment(s) is the property of My Lord Jesus Christ & Myself and may be protected by his judgment or disclosure of private information only. It is intended solely for the use of the entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, copying, distribution or use of the information contained herein is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. The sender has not waived any God given rights which can not be perverted to governmental privilege's by sending the accompanying transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by returning the e-mail, and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. May God Bless the U.S. Land That I love. May God Bless our fine Military & our loyal Oath Keepers: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/ Anyone can take the oaths of office to protect the flag -v- FlagS and constitution. But not everyone is keeps it. "Try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the fruitless works of darkness; rather expose them, for it is shameful even to mention the things done by them in secret; but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore, it says: "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light." Ephesians 5:10-14 "But he said: Woe to you lawyers also, because you load men with burdens which they cannot bear and you yourselves touch not the packs with one of your fingers". Luke 11:46 "If thou shalt see the oppressions of the poor, and violent judgments, and justice perverted in the province, wonder not at this matter: for he that is high hath another higher, and there are others still higher than these: 8 Moreover there is the king that reigneth over all the land subject to him. 9 A covetous man shall not be satisfied with money: and he that loveth riches shall reap no fruit from them: so this also is vanity." Ecclesiastes 5:7-9 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJSwUFNTI04 2. http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=117056 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tlxNT3sUXM 4. http://freedom-school.com/evidence/martin-fisher-1.html 5. Obama tells Students: "It's true I'm not American"... " I come from KENYA" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zsQ-v7kD5Q&feature=related 6. The US State Department is spending $770 million on mosques in Middle East to upgrade there sewer systems. ( While our S.S.I. Disabled & Old People will go hungry.) http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/02/us-state-department-spends-770-million-on-mosques-in-middle-east.html 7. ELABORATE WELFARE HOUSING PROJECT.....~....For people from other countries payed for by S.S.I. while our elderlyand disabled get cut back in pay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu6ok5ykyuQ&feature=email 8. █║▌│█│║▌║││█║▌│║▌║666 Bar coded humans is NEXT. WAKE UP AMERICA __________________________________________________________________________________ MILITARY JUDGE MICHAEL L. BORG, GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG. FOUND AT: http://www.vfwofwi.com/Vnews/04_04VFWN.pdf on page 3 of 13 ( Notice: The Government has now removed it from the web. ) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED  Department Judge Advocate Michael L. Borg Get That Gold Fringe Off My Flag What do the gold-fringed United States flags standing in our present day courtrooms, schools, public buildings, churches, federal government buildings, and many of our own VFW clubhouses and Post Color Guard units symbolize? Is the gold fringe there for decoration only, or is there a significance to the gold fringe? Currently, the flag of the United States of America is defined in these words: "The American Flag of Peace of the United States of America is red, white and blue, with thirteen alternating red and white horizontal stripes, and a blue field (Union) with 50 stars, one to represent each of the states." This flag is covered under Title 4 – U.S.C., 1 & 2 and Presidential Executive Order 10834, found in the Federal Register at Vol. 24, No. 166, Pages 6365-6367. Why should anyone be concerned about this apparently innocent decorative feature? What difference does it make? Citizens are subject to much ridicule when they object to the "Admiralty Flag," the flag that appears in every government office and courtroom, as well as other public buildings in the land. That flag is the United States Flag – with one seemingly minor cosmetic difference – a knotted gold fringe on three sides. The difference is that the gold-fringed flag, when displayed, is legal notice to all who enter of the type of law that holds jurisdiction. The constitutional United States flag signifies common law jurisdiction. The gold-fringed United States flag is an "Admiralty" or "War" flag, which denotes Admiralty or martial law. As mentioned above, there are two "United States" – one which is comprised of the "Republic States" and the other comprised of the "United States" which without authority of law incorporated itself in 1871 and 1874. Are you aware that there are also two separate and distinct "flags" for each of these "United States?" It is the flag appearing within the sanctuary of the "bar" in the courtroom that determines the laws applying to that court. Flag #1 – Flags with gold fringe, gold braid, gold eagle, gold spear or gold ball atop the flagpole establish the jurisdiction of the Admiralty, maritime or administration jurisdiction. Flag #2 – Article III (Three) of the United States Constitution describes the jurisdiction of the court by the American flag of peace, Title 4 U.S.C., 1 & 2. This flag is described as red, white and blue with stripes of red and white horizontally placed in alternation. Under the jurisdiction of the American flag of peace, the United States Constitution is alive and well and all rights are preserved. People are innocent until proven guilty. The jurisdiction of the American Flag is the determining factor upon which all citizens' rights are determined. Remember always that the goldfringed flag is your warning that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America. You can clearly see that the goldfringed flag does not, I repeat not, symbolize a ceremonial flag. The next time you see this yellow/gold-fringed flag, you will know what you are looking at and what it really symbolizes. Even our VFW National organization in their Flag Questions and Answers section that appear on the web site states that the fringe started in the early 1800s as decorative enrichment. They claim that there are no rules that prohibit the use of fringe on a U.S. flag by non-government groups or organizations, which isn't the case in fact. Please feel free to contact me anytime you need assistance in any way with regard to the Bylaws of the VFW. Remember to address your concerns either to my address of 1809 N. Oneida St., Appleton, WI 54911, e-mail to judgeadvo@tds.net, or phone at 920- 739-5730.

  • 08/03/2011 8:43:00 PM

    If you get a Red Light Ticket Or you are fined and you have seen a false flag dichotmy in the court should you pay? Especialy is the court and the government is displaying a desicrated flag? I tell you this If I dont reconise the flag, I dont reconise the jurisdiction, hense we have no buisness. If the bailif or the so called judge threatens me with contempt or halls me to jail I would charge him with treason. and violation of his oath of office. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITH ALL DUE RESPECT Please Reply with your thought Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachment(s) is the property of My Lord Jesus Christ & Myself and may be protected by his judgment or disclosure of private information only. It is intended solely for the use of the entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, copying, distribution or use of the information contained herein is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. The sender has not waived any God given rights which can not be perverted to governmental privilege's by sending the accompanying transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by returning the e-mail, and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. May God Bless the U.S. Land That I love. May God Bless our fine Military & our loyal Oath Keepers: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/ Anyone can take the oaths of office to protect the flag -v- FlagS and constitution. But not everyone is keeps it. "Try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the fruitless works of darkness; rather expose them, for it is shameful even to mention the things done by them in secret; but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore, it says: "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light." Ephesians 5:10-14 "But he said: Woe to you lawyers also, because you load men with burdens which they cannot bear and you yourselves touch not the packs with one of your fingers". Luke 11:46 "If thou shalt see the oppressions of the poor, and violent judgments, and justice perverted in the province, wonder not at this matter: for he that is high hath another higher, and there are others still higher than these: 8 Moreover there is the king that reigneth over all the land subject to him. 9 A covetous man shall not be satisfied with money: and he that loveth riches shall reap no fruit from them: so this also is vanity." Ecclesiastes 5:7-9 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJSwUFNTI04 2. http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=117056 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tlxNT3sUXM 4. http://freedom-school.com/evidence/martin-fisher-1.html 5. Obama tells Students: "It's true I'm not American"... " I come from KENYA" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zsQ-v7kD5Q&feature=related 6. The US State Department is spending $770 million on mosques in Middle East to upgrade there sewer systems. ( While our S.S.I. Disabled & Old People will go hungry.) http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/02/us-state-department-spends-770-million-on-mosques-in-middle-east.html 7. ELABORATE WELFARE HOUSING PROJECT.....~....For people from other countries payed for by S.S.I. while our elderlyand disabled get cut back in pay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu6ok5ykyuQ&feature=email 8. █║▌│█│║▌║││█║▌│║▌║666 Bar coded humans is NEXT. WAKE UP AMERICA __________________________________________________________________________________ MILITARY JUDGE MICHAEL L. BORG, GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG. FOUND AT: http://www.vfwofwi.com/Vnews/04_04VFWN.pdf on page 3 of 13 ( Notice: The Government has now removed it from the web. ) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED  Department Judge Advocate Michael L. Borg Get That Gold Fringe Off My Flag What do the gold-fringed United States flags standing in our present day courtrooms, schools, public buildings, churches, federal government buildings, and many of our own VFW clubhouses and Post Color Guard units symbolize? Is the gold fringe there for decoration only, or is there a significance to the gold fringe? Currently, the flag of the United States of America is defined in these words: "The American Flag of Peace of the United States of America is red, white and blue, with thirteen alternating red and white horizontal stripes, and a blue field (Union) with 50 stars, one to represent each of the states." This flag is covered under Title 4 – U.S.C., 1 & 2 and Presidential Executive Order 10834, found in the Federal Register at Vol. 24, No. 166, Pages 6365-6367. Why should anyone be concerned about this apparently innocent decorative feature? What difference does it make? Citizens are subject to much ridicule when they object to the "Admiralty Flag," the flag that appears in every government office and courtroom, as well as other public buildings in the land. That flag is the United States Flag – with one seemingly minor cosmetic difference – a knotted gold fringe on three sides. The difference is that the gold-fringed flag, when displayed, is legal notice to all who enter of the type of law that holds jurisdiction. The constitutional United States flag signifies common law jurisdiction. The gold-fringed United States flag is an "Admiralty" or "War" flag, which denotes Admiralty or martial law. As mentioned above, there are two "United States" – one which is comprised of the "Republic States" and the other comprised of the "United States" which without authority of law incorporated itself in 1871 and 1874. Are you aware that there are also two separate and distinct "flags" for each of these "United States?" It is the flag appearing within the sanctuary of the "bar" in the courtroom that determines the laws applying to that court. Flag #1 – Flags with gold fringe, gold braid, gold eagle, gold spear or gold ball atop the flagpole establish the jurisdiction of the Admiralty, maritime or administration jurisdiction. Flag #2 – Article III (Three) of the United States Constitution describes the jurisdiction of the court by the American flag of peace, Title 4 U.S.C., 1 & 2. This flag is described as red, white and blue with stripes of red and white horizontally placed in alternation. Under the jurisdiction of the American flag of peace, the United States Constitution is alive and well and all rights are preserved. People are innocent until proven guilty. The jurisdiction of the American Flag is the determining factor upon which all citizens' rights are determined. Remember always that the goldfringed flag is your warning that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America. You can clearly see that the goldfringed flag does not, I repeat not, symbolize a ceremonial flag. The next time you see this yellow/gold-fringed flag, you will know what you are looking at and what it really symbolizes. Even our VFW National organization in their Flag Questions and Answers section that appear on the web site states that the fringe started in the early 1800s as decorative enrichment. They claim that there are no rules that prohibit the use of fringe on a U.S. flag by non-government groups or organizations, which isn't the case in fact. Please feel free to contact me anytime you need assistance in any way with regard to the Bylaws of the VFW. Remember to address your concerns either to my address of 1809 N. Oneida St., Appleton, WI 54911, e-mail to judgeadvo@tds.net, or phone at 920- 739-5730.

  • Cozleep3 05/16/2011 5:05:00 PM

    Yeah because comparing the deaths of over 6 million people to a red light camera makes any sense.

  • how 10/16/2010 2:49:00 AM

    try this sick additional story - as a teacher, i serve dallas at its worst accademically acceptable school, au5 and closing, thrown there without request nor interview due to racism in administration in disd, a school where a police officer was shot in the head and killed last year. so i drive twice as far now, and i received a ticket for turning right on red, and the officer manning the dallas pd line states "you have to come to a 'complete' stop, or it will do it. great - serving my community while it knowingly screws me over. not to mention that i know another individual who got out of crime after crime associated with doctor shopping and illegal prescription writing for a decade that finally had to do time (3 years) and got out only to get hit by a hummer while in a community shuttle and receive over 40 thousand dollars. What is the world coming to - it is like the mob created that for this individual, while it knocks hard working, good people into the ground. Thanks Dallas, Texas for hurting the good people, for sucking all of the blood out of the good folks who even support the police department and charity, while the city sucks like a leach and destroys life for its own revenue generating scam. SICK

  • ashley chen 08/14/2010 11:33:00 AM

    My dad just got this same exact ticket in the mail the other day and he told me to read this article and it really gave me insight to this "fraud" ticket. What is the right thing to do if it isnt reasonable to pay almost $600 for the actual "ticket", traffic school, processing fee? should my dad just leave this matter alone and not pay it?

  • jon green 04/06/2010 5:40:00 PM

    $450 - ridiculous - is there no limit to the amount - what next year? 550 then $650?? It takes me 3 weeks to make that much and they act like "hey you should be more careful." like its nothing - article make sit sound like not worth trying to get a lawyer - do I have any recourse at all? They don't care if they're putting people on the streets and bankrupting them - people who make a lot are like "whats the big deal" - it seems like "cruel and unusual punishment" if your salary is like mine

  • Larry Purtell 03/15/2010 9:58:00 AM

    The Electronic Traffic Enforcement Cameras are nothing more than revenue earners for the city. The high price for these fines is part of Los Angeles city corruption.

  • maryjane 02/03/2010 4:07:00 AM

    Thanks to LA Weekly for a great artice....I had to look it up online after seeing a Letter to Editor about it...knowing that good investigative reporting is found here at this paper . Thanks. I also chose to copy and/or email this article to others who may not know the worst yet... other people are writing about lack of parking places as well as how LA city is trying to make it's budget on tickets, parking fee increases, parking ticket increases [street cleaning day parking is $60 for 5 min over the time stated, even if no cleaner comes for a few hours], and more. Parking ticket fees at County lots like the Rose Ave lot in Venice is $50 only, for parking a bit over the tight spaced line, where elderly w/walkers cannot open their doors while vans and SUV's barely fit in their adjacent spaces... oh well, we can afford it, right ? hardly. thanks for the good bad news, to all who produced this article. It needs to be further added to with individual case experiences retold for all to learn from, and to the City Council et al to complain about the devious ways we are being fee-ticketed-taxed in ways not openly admitted. keep the info coming out ! thanx mj

  • Sarah 01/30/2010 7:56:00 AM

    I called the city (Costa Mesa)about the intersection at 19th street and Newport Blvd where the 55 ends. I was afraid I had gotten a red light ticket but more importantly the light wasn't long enough for you to make it through the intersection before it went from yellow to red even though you entered on a green light. They actually fixed the problem. Maybe if the government was more proactive than reactive they could stop using tickets as budget balancers.

  • Dougee 01/24/2010 4:43:00 AM

    It doesn't matter what your moral high horse is about running red lights and/or what your definition of red-light running is. Any way you look at it, $400-$500 for running a red is egregious gouging. Most tickets around southern CA issued by traffic cops for run-of-the-mill traffic stops run $140-$200. None of those violations is any more or less dangerous than crossing a line 0.2 seconds after a light turned red. Why the bilking? One thing is, the cameras aren't bringing in the cash cow that the cities were promised, so they upped the fine several hundred percent in a miserable attempt to justify the cameras' existence. In the process, the state and county get a chunk, too. It's sickening that this type of extortion can still be legal, and anyone who says it's about safety and not revenue is a complete buffoon. The cameras are a Band-Aid fix (which unfortunately also turns out to benefit municipalities) for a problem that's plagued lights since they were invented: insufficient warning of an impending red light. The yellow isn't enough. It's too short and too often presents itself at a point where one must decide whether to "make the light" or slam on the brakes. What we need at all major intersections, instead of Uncle Sam with his robotic hand waiting to grab you by the legs and shake the money out of your pants, is a visible count of how many seconds remain on the green. That would solve 90% of the "red-light running" going on. Sadly, since only motorists benefit, it's probably something we won't see -- all we'll get are more cameras cha-chinging for the government until some sensible court puts an end to it.

  • TerrenceR 01/24/2010 2:34:00 AM

    Wow, I can't fucking believe you guys are paying $500! And have to go to traffic school? DAMN. I live in St Louis and those same cameras are everywhere. But our tickets are a flat $100, no traffic school. I got so pissed when I had to pay $100, I can't imagine five hundred fucking dollars for a right turn on red. Oh well, guys enjoying perfect year-round weather isn't cheap.

  • Gregory Wright 01/23/2010 6:19:00 PM

    The answer to "Los Angeles's Red-Light Ticket Ripoff" ("Still Seeing Red Over Red-Light Cameras," Jan. 22-28) is SPEED CAMERAS. The practitioners of dangerous speeding commit this very serious offense continuously, not just in scattered specific locations. And speeding, unlike rolling stops, or failure to use directionals or weaving in and out of lanes (the justifiably cited more deserving traffic crimes for cameras suggested by writer Ronnie Cohen), exacts an environmental cost too, increasing gasoline use and CO2 emissions by up to 30 percent. Speed cameras in two or more locations on selected thoroughfares and freeways could be used to establish a pattern of speeding and a measure of the excess, and the resulting fines could be calibrated up and down accordingly. And, as the Weekly points out, speeding is considered a contributor to rolling stops at red lights. The great logic and utility of speed cameras, though, is probably the main reason it will never be adopted, at least in California or America. But as a resident of a thoroughfare in the San Fernando Valley that is plagued by speeding and the resulting increased automotive noise pollution, especially from pickup trucks and SUVs outfitted with those deliberately offensive exhaust resonators ("speed microphones" for these?; naw, just outlaw them!), I can hope.

  • Larry Purtell 01/22/2010 1:50:00 AM

    I am so glad your publication brought this unfair problem about the �Los Angeles' Red-Light Ticket Ripoff�. I got a ticket last August in Encino from one of these cameras. My total cost of the violation ended up being $535. This is a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a traffic violation. To me, the cost of this violation is unfair and many ways seen illegal to the citizens of Los Angeles. I call this �Traffic Ticket Violation Price Gouging by the City of Los Angeles�. Obviously the city is financial broke and needs revenue. To charge this unheard amount for a violation is highway robbery by the city. I moved to Los Angeles 3 years ago. I use to reside in the Dallas, TX area. The DFW metro area is a large city near the size of Los Angeles. Now why is the camera violation in Dallas is around $75 and in Los Angeles the same traffic violation is $445. The Department of Transportation or some federal authority needs to investigate the unfair violation charges here in Los Angeles.

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  • CRIS 01/14/2010 3:41:00 AM

    I personally am terrified of those DAM CAMERA COPS!!! My husband got one of those tickets on Atlantic Blvd and Tweedy Blvd in South Gate. He made a complete stop and it took his picture anyways. I told him to go to court and fight the ticket but the time and money he would waist did not convince him. When I come to an intersection with a camera I either speed not to be caught in the red light or if I see that the light is about to turn red I pull over to the side. I cannot afford one of those DAM CAMERA COPS tickets. Fraud that all it is�

  • Ronnie Cohen 01/13/2010 9:59:00 AM

    Tomorrow morning my wife and I go to court in Inglewood. Both of us, within eight hours of each other, got caught by a camera in Hawthorne rolling through a right turn at a red. Ok, there was no traffic whatsoever and I did not come to a full stop, slowed down, but no full stop. Now my wife and I owe the city $1,000. I live paycheck to paycheck. $500 a pop seems excessive to me. What's that, twice the per capita income in Egypt? I've been driving for almost forty years and have only been involved in one accident. ( I was rear-ended.) Yeah, so what? Right? I can only hope the judge will show some mercy tomorrow. Big Brother is definitely watching at the corner of Hindry and Rosecrans, where my research tells me that more red light tickets have been issued than at any other corner in Southern California. How about cameras for people who don't bother using their directionals? Or who weave in and out of lanes? Now that might be something.

  • Marino 01/12/2010 4:04:00 AM

    This is unconstitutional. Laws should not be enforced by robots. We have the right to face our accuser. It's in the 6th amendment. The amount is also ridiculous. This is a tax on the poor. Someone who makes $10/hr has to work FIFTY hours to pay a $500 ticket. Someone who makes $500/hr has to work only ONE hour to pay the same ticket. One is sentenced to one week of labor, the other to one hour.

  • anonymous 01/11/2010 4:56:00 AM

    Keep buying into the BS fed to you about needing more cops. These tickets continue to fund them. You want more cops, you got em. How many murders and rape they prevent, I'll leave up to the readers.

  • Guy in LA 01/10/2010 10:45:00 PM

    When a small town in Ohio installed 5 of these camera systems, it was definitely about raising revenue. It caused an absolute revolt of the people. In the next election, the voters approved a voter initiated Charter amendment to ban the use of cameras for traffic enforcement. The current Mayor was also tossed out of office. In Los Angeles, these tickets are just one more reason that a citizen's revolt is brewing all over the City. Would the people of LA gather signatures to amend the Charter to ban money making cameras? Probably not, but the cumulative impact of frustruation with the way the City is managed could lead to an effort to dismantle the City into small, more manageable bourghs, or even separate cities the size of Pasadean, Glendale, Burbank, Santa Monica, Hermosa, Manhattan Beach, Redondo.... It's looking more and more attractive as an option.

  • NoHo Mom 01/08/2010 10:58:00 PM

    "Think of how often you see these red light runners flying through 20 seconds, 40 seconds or even a minute after the light has turned red. Rare, right?" Uh, try EVERY DAY in North Hollywood. The intersections off of Oxnard and Burbank are the worst. The problem is the lights are timed so poorly, they encourage careless drivers to speed so as not to hit every red light. When I approach and intersection and it turns yellow, I look in my review mirror and see if someone is tailgating me. If so, I continue through. I've noticed that if I travel slowly toward an intersection folks will weave around me and try to make the light. While on the phone.

  • Chris 01/06/2010 10:59:00 PM

    You need to write to all the City Councilmen and complain. you also need to write to the Attorney General in Sacramento via letters and demand they rule these lights as unconstitutional. The reason red light camera are unconstitutional is it denies you due process under the law. This is a money making scheme by an Arizona company. This is not about safety at all. AT ALL. The cops quoted in this article know that. You need to write letters and make phone calls. That is the only thing that will stop this or make government people aware. You need to be proactive outside the internet. Lastly, put down your visors when around these entrapment intersections, so they don't get a clear shot of your face. It's all about your face.

  • JB 01/06/2010 9:35:00 PM

    Collisions might have increased for a short time after camera installation, but I bet in the end, they save lives and decrease wrecks. Drivers in this city and southern california have a real problem with stopping fully at red lights and stop signs. They often do the slow down roll and then gas as fast as they can, often without looking - which makes it a dangerous place for bicyclists and pedestrians. I'm all for anything that gets people to slow down and pay attention. For the complainers - one suggestion - Take the Metro. It's best to get folks like you off the road.

  • virg 01/06/2010 5:11:00 AM

    yep, recently got a ticket for a california roll too...first time I have had a ticket since I started driving 12 years ago. I have no idea how much this costs (since it's not a red light)...but 450 for slowing down and making a right is excessive to say the least. Hope you fight your ticket and win...

  • Derek 01/06/2010 1:39:00 AM

    This is Modern Day Fascism! These tactics are Barbarian and the way they are dealt with should be dealt with in a less financial way, maybe you could choose to do Community service if you can't afford to pay for the ticket! Driving in LA is a right. If you can't drive, you can't work and make a living. These tactics are Hitler and Nazi like! This has gone too far!

  • Suzi 01/05/2010 6:38:00 AM

    These red-light cameras have infuriated me for years. What *really* upsets me is the amount of the ticket. $500 doesn't mean much to the upper classes but it is a fortune for someone working for close to minimum wage. Now, even more ways for the working poor to get screwed. I'd like the politicians to have to decide whether to pay the ticket or pay the rent.

  • Jeff 01/05/2010 3:36:00 AM

    There's an easy way to see through the "safety first" mantra of the city/county governments. The red-light runner who is truly dangerous (causing a T-collision - inherently the most dangerous type) is 99% of the time someone who is not paying attention. That person won't be paying attention if there's a camera or not. Think of how often you see these red light runners flying through 20 seconds, 40 seconds or even a minute after the light has turned red. Rare, right? I bet most of you can't even remember such an incident. These are the ones that result in gory collisions (traffic is already moving perpendicularly, pedestrians are in the crosswalk). This type of offender will never be stopped by the camera. However, 99% of the cameras pick up the straggler. This is the guy who runs the red JUST AS IT TURNS RED. Maybe he's moving too fast to slow down and risk a rear end collision? Maybe he doesn't realize the yellow is timed at 2.75 seconds instead of the recommended 3.5. For whatever reason, he's a second behind the light. There's no cross-traffic (it hasn't started moving yet). There are no pedestrians (their light has literally *just* turned greed. What is there? $448 for the state/city/county. Simple as that. All it takes is a little logic.

  • Rick 01/03/2010 4:46:00 PM

    LA sucks. I got a stupid red light ticket and it ended up finally costing me $1600 after it went to collections and i lost my license. I had no money to pay for the ticket at the time.

  • Philippe 01/03/2010 12:31:00 PM

    I experienced the exactly same situation on a right hand turn. At 10PM at night, zero cars, clear picture of my face looking for oncoming traffic -- fine, I rolled through the intersection. Personally I think $446 does not justify the infraction, and $2.5million operational cost??? Set up the camera and in the money will start coming in. This is a form of robbery. I recommend everyone keep a good record of these citations. I wouldn't be surprised if all other were to be overturned one day.

  • no_spam 01/03/2010 8:02:00 AM

    The average person caught by these cameras is mid-forties with a clean driving record. Almost all supposed violations are right turns on lonely roads where people do not stop for 3 seconds because there is no traffic in sight. It is all about revenue, since the camera company only gets paid if they generate enough money. I got one of these, and absolutely took the 2 days off work to fight it. I won. If more people fought these outrageous tickets, they would stop. This racket only works if people shut up and pay.

  • Taft 01/03/2010 7:24:00 AM

    What if you are stopping? Will the cameras show the smoke generated by locked-up wheels? Can they show an ABS-light on the instrument panel? I think not... Mat, if any of these are true YOU WERE GOING TOO FAST! A deserved ticket will be the result. I am a strong supporter of these high fines because the deterrent is the only incentive I can conceive of that will actually change driver behaviour and save lives.

  • Crash 01/03/2010 6:19:00 AM

    The reason red light camera are unconstitutional is it denighs you due process under the law.

  • Scott Jacobson 01/03/2010 4:50:00 AM

    I totally agree with you here. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to make a legal right turn on red because of traffic cameras. Philadelphia has seen the opposite of your problem. The cameras here worked "too well". So much so, that they're covered or otherwise disabled several of them. People picked up on it quickly and reacted accordingly. This meant, for the cost, the city could not recoup the money via fines. Several other cities have had the same problem. Look in the southwest psrt of the country. Arizone and New Mexico (I think even Colorado) have realized the same thing. What is happening in your area is unique to the driving habits of your geography. But there is no reason the camera criteria should be so vague as to erroneously identify right-on-red cars as running the light.

  • Mark 01/03/2010 1:48:00 AM

    Go to highwayrobbery.net for more information on cameras in California http://www.highwayrobbery.net

  • RW 01/03/2010 12:19:00 AM

    I have trouble coming to accept much of what was said here, if not simply because the author opened up with a description of his own traffic fine. Are we to believe a burning sensation to enlighten everyone about these practices always sat in Mr. Goldstein's chest, and that he just happened to get a ticket before the article was published? I think that the author simply had some attention brought to a practice that financially hurts. At no time does he dispute his own actions, rather, that the enforcement of laws is unfair. I'm sorry Michael, but you aren't coming off as very mature about it. Regardless, does anyone expect any sort of social change, without more vigorous punishment? Nobody seems to think traffic is great and that we are all safe, but we certainly aren't doing much to change it. Driver mentality in California is something of legend, a bad one, and any efforts to curb what is simply illegal is worthwhile in my book. Personal accounts are that, personal: I was rear-ended on a left turn when the light went yellow, and we stopped. The other driver described how 'when it's yellow, you just go.'

  • Mat 01/02/2010 11:50:00 PM

    Red-light cameras are unconstitutional. Unless they take a video of the incident happening, and even then, one or two directed-angles can't show the whole story! What if you are stopping? Will the cameras show the smoke generated by locked-up wheels? Can they show an ABS-light on the instrument panel? I think not...

  • Brian Geiger 01/02/2010 11:28:00 PM

    What if both sides are basically right? It increases collisions, but decreases severity. Then it is increasing safety, but increasing the number of them. Let's try economic comparison then. Red light cameras come out on top in that case. http://144.171.11.107/Main/Public/Blurbs/156844.aspx

  • Ivan Horban 01/02/2010 11:28:00 PM

    The following statement was mad: Glenn Ogura of the city�s Department of Transportation says a yellow light must remain yellow for at least three seconds, but on roads with lower speed limits, the city extends the period to as much as 3.9 seconds. �We don�t reduce yellow time to catch people,� he insists. The implication is that the faster the average speed coming into an intersection the shorter the yellow is. I would have to call this entrapment as it should be the opposite. Ivan

  • John WOods 01/02/2010 10:47:00 PM

    WOw, this is some pretty messed up stuff dude! RT www.invisibility-tools.pl.tc

  • DJB 01/02/2010 6:50:00 PM

    These cameras should be judged by how the number of FATAL or INJURY CAUSING accidents changes at each intersection. If the cameras cause these figures to go down they are a good thing, period, and should be expanded. The evidence presented in this article suggests that the lights do reduce fatal accidents. So why the tone of indignation? Your ticket will make you a less idiotic driver, the public will be safer, and you won't get another one. Those "California rolls" are a deadly threat to pedestrians by the way. Giving them a cute name is an insult to the families of the people who have died so drivers can save 3 seconds on their trip. Lets have a little perspective, eh?

  • daphne 01/02/2010 6:21:00 AM

    well I was rear ended by a guy who tried to beat a light with a camera at it on Crescent Heights and Fountain. He was driving a 1980 mini van. No license. No registration. No insurance. Major language barrier as well. Totaled my 6 month old BMW M3. I in turn rear ended the car in front of me. The police showed up and when I asked why the guy wasn't being arrested they said, "Poor guy give him a break. You want us to take his car? He has to get to work". Well so did I. Guess who paid for my car and the damage to the car in front of me? Me and my insurance. Also for the physical therapy I needed. Maybe the guy got a $446 ticket for it. Makes me feel a little better.

  • grimjack 01/02/2010 12:15:00 AM

    As a pedestrian I am all for you scofflaws getting ticketed because you are to self centered to obey traffic laws. It is people like you with your me first attitudes that make walking in LA very dangerous. This article might just be the most self-serving POS that I have started to read.

  • zukibandit 01/01/2010 12:58:00 PM

    These are all really heartwarming stories and like all the folks in jail, you're innocent but, what part of "Stop" is it that you don't understand? I mean, a red light means stop, "not" only if you feel like it! How many of you "red light runners" say "I can make this" "It just turned red!" Personally, I don't think $500 and traffic school is enough! I think a retest on the driving test to get you lisence back is what it should be as well as the fine and traffic school! Oh yeah, I think that red light runners are potential "hit & runners" Why should you stop for that either?

  • Mister Dadier 01/01/2010 7:12:00 AM

    Isn't $446+ a little on the high side?! Why not a $1000. At what point does the amount become a relevant and significant issue unto itself? It seems to me it already has. Damn near an "unusual punishment." for the offense. For many, this amount is simply not paid. They become drivers with warrants and then unlicensed drivers. The amount of drivers in LA or California that fall into these categories is surprisingly high (wish I could remember the figure). Consequently, this becomes an occasional tax on the generally law-abiding, middle class or higher segment of the population. Thanks, again.

  • Melanie 01/01/2010 1:16:00 AM

    Simple solution to this problem...don't run red lights. Slow down when it goes to amber. Heck, slow down period, and save somebody's life, maybe your own!

  • LaHenry 12/31/2009 10:59:00 PM

    By the way, that attorney "Sherman Ellis" in the article is actually Sherman Ellison. (I am not him, but I know him.)

  • LaHenry 12/31/2009 10:29:00 PM

    Readers need to know about Snitch Tickets, which are fake/phishing red light camera tickets sent out by the police in an effort to fool the registered owner into identifying the actual driver of the car. (He doesn't have to!) Local cities using this "social engineering" tactic are Bakersfield, Corona, Garden Grove, Gardena, Hawthorne, Inglewood, Laguna Woods, Los Alamitos, Loma Linda, Maywood, Moreno Valley, Riverside, Santa Ana, Santa Clarita, South Gate, and Victorville. Snitch tickets have not been filed with the court, so they don't say "Notice to Appear," don't have the court's address and phone # on them, and usually say, on the back (in small letters), "Do not contact the court about this notice." Since they have not been filed with the court, they have no legal weight whatsoever. You can, and should, ignore a Snitch Ticket. If in doubt, Google the term.

  • Alex 12/31/2009 9:43:00 PM

    The increase of rear end collisions in Costa Mesa proves that drivers are following too close behind the car in front of them. Instead of a light changing color, what if it is a child running into the street? Poor driving habits are to blame, not cameras. The fear of losing money is a powerful compliance tool.

  • Alex 12/31/2009 9:35:00 PM

    As a cyclist, I am thrilled with any enforcement against distracted and careless drivers. I don't care if it is for safety or money. Since there are too few police to focus on traffic enforcement, I believe this is an imperfect solution. The article points to one person wrongly cited when a car in the next lane ran a red. I feel safer every time I see an idiot run a red and the flash goes off. Thank you!

  • Brent 12/31/2009 8:18:00 PM

    Photo enforcement is unconstitutional. City by city, state by state; citizens across our country our helping ban this disgusting perversion of revenue production by private companies (some of which aren't even US-based). visit www.photoradarscam.com www.camerafraud.com

  • Andrew Zela 12/31/2009 7:03:00 PM

    Got fed up with these too and picked up a red light camera detector from Fry's. Works great. www.gpsangel.com

  • CAROLYN 12/31/2009 5:55:00 PM

    I, too, received a Christmas present in the mail last week. A ticket for $446 for making a right on Imperial Highway onto Atlantic. (An expensive Starbucks run). The camera went off before hitting the line of the crosswalk. The southbound was safely making a left onto Imperial Highway (eastbound), there were no pedestrians in the crosswalk, and I proceeded to make my right. And the paparrazi flash and now a quaint donation of $446 will need to be made. Happy New Year to me! Grrrr!

 

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