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Christy106 12/08/2011 10:22:00 PM
The professors in this article are babbling bullshit. Accept for this: Or it could simply be a fantasy of abundance. “If you presume that these women are heterosexual,” Williams adds, “and their own desire is for men, then you’ve doubled the pleasure.”
Why the fuck is there a 6 page article on this?
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Moderatrix Lori 01/12/2010 2:23:00 AM
There's no doubt in my mind that this genre is growing. As the moderator of an online M/M Romance Group we went from 9 members 5 months ago to almost 450 currently. The number of requests to join increases every week and we're getting more and more men joining as well. The fact that we rank 99th out of almost 21,000 other online groups at goodreads.com is astounding to those of us who remember when nobody even knew what M/M romance was and thought you were a freak for reading it.
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Donald Hardy 01/07/2010 3:54:00 AM
I see I'm wandering into this rather late. =-)
Very intense conversation.
The only thing I'm going to comment on is my absence in the article. I think it's pretty simple: the article is about women who write and read m/m romance. I'm a guy, so I don't fall within the scope of the article.
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David Ehrenstein 12/25/2009 4:06:00 AM
"It'd be great if women could stop treating our sexuality as though it is something that needs to be justified."
Justification is demanded of gay male sexuality 24/7.
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David Ehrenstein 12/24/2009 12:39:00 AM
One last word
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaLrS-KDJo
in song!
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Archon 12/23/2009 8:24:00 PM
"That may sound somewhat dubious � if it�s so deep-seated, why did it take 100,000 years of human history and the invention of the e-book to become evident?"
It didn't. Male/male romance has been popular for quite some time in Japan, where society is generally more open in terms of sexuality.
Given that the female orgasm was only (relatively) recently acknowledged, is it really so surprising that it took this long for women in this society to be able to publicly own up to being turned on by something that makes many men uncomfortable?
I find the comparison between lesbian scenes in porn geared to straight men very analogous. What saddens me is that women seem to feel obligated to explain the phenomenon - in a sense, almost apologize for it - in a way that men never seem to.
It'd be great if women could stop treating our sexuality as though it is something that needs to be justified.
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 10:10:00 PM
I've been called Mary long before you were born -- Mary!
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Teddypig 12/22/2009 9:49:00 PM
So now I am a lesbian or Laura Albert...
David am I supposed to be offended by you insisting I am a woman? Is this your ultimate way to negate someone who disagrees with you? Make them into a woman or a lesbian.
Would you go nuts if I called you Mary?
Your mommy issues are loud and clear.
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Johnny Apple 12/22/2009 7:02:00 PM
Sorry dude but that is just messed up!
Jess
www.online-invisibility.net.tc
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 5:57:00 PM
"Your lack of a future in writing is because you are a bitter tragic idiot with no reading comprehension not because you are gay."
And you're a bitter tragic idiot. I have no idea if you're gay, HIV+ or anything else. For all I know you could be Laura Albert.
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Miss Means 12/22/2009 3:34:00 PM
I think this genre is fantastic. ANYTHING that helps push the gay agenda into the mainstream is good. I am a straight female who thinks M/M romance is hot. But I also think F/F romance is hot. So go figure. How gay men can get in a huff over straight women writing gay romances is ridiculous. Its just another form of discrimination.
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Teddypig 12/22/2009 10:29:00 AM
Nope, never met David.
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SLC 12/22/2009 10:12:00 AM
David & Teddypig:
Are you two really strangers to each other, or is there another layer to this the rest of us don't know about?
Peace,
SLC
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Teddypig 12/22/2009 8:46:00 AM
In shorter sentences for the brain damaged...
I did not say I was lesbian.
I am still HIV+ and very much a gay man.
Your lack of a future in writing is because you are a bitter tragic idiot with no reading comprehension not because you are gay.
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 8:18:00 AM
Hey "Teddypig," in coment #33 you're a gay man now in #98 you're an HIV+ lesbian.
What's next? A transexual paraplegic perchance?
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 8:13:00 AM
You forgot the "Harumpf !"
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Teddypig 12/22/2009 5:36:00 AM
David you are not George Nader.
I spent ten years serving this country in the Navy. I spent 8 of those years HIV +. AND YOU, YOU of all people want to talk about careers being cut short or mistreatment at the hands of homophobes? Please oh clueless one don't... don't sit in this comment section being rude to several intelligent women writers I like and then try to impress upon ME the plight of the common gay man as if you can use such a thing as an excuse for your behavior.
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 5:19:00 AM
Are you familiar with "Chrome," teddy? It's a gay science fiction romance about robots in love written by George Nader -- an actor whose Hollywood career was cut short by his gayness.
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Teddypig 12/22/2009 4:53:00 AM
"Meanwhile, I'm going back to reading Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars, another one of those "genre transcenders."
I love that series. I think I liked Blue Mars best, when ironically - because the terraforming is now complete - it's all become rather alien and not at all like the earth politics we're used to.
******
But guys we should really make an effort for David's sake to stop giving in to such aesthetic mediocrity. I say we should only read stories about Mars written and promoted by actual Martians. I heard the sex scenes are far more realistic too!
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 3:04:00 AM
You are more than welcome. I was born (1947) and raised in New York, so I have a lot of memories of what it was like to be gay over the long haul of several decades. Just finishing Ed's book, and am GREEN with envy over the people he got to hang with, like Virgil Thompson:
"Though he (Thompsopn's lover Maurice Grosser) was up in his late seventies, he still rode a motorcycle and Virgil said of him admiringly 'He is the only man of my generation who can still undrape becomingly.' Maurice was the oldest person I knew in the 1980s to die of AIDS, which was also a distinction. He was indisputably sexually active. Although Virgil seldom spoke of homosexuality, he had a darting eye and an asp's tongue and a nice sense of humor. Once when he asked me what a certain boy looked like, I said, 'He has a charming body,' and Virgil cracked up over the 'charming' and said, 'Not exactly the quality one looks for in a man's body.' "
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SLC 12/22/2009 3:03:00 AM
Dear Alex,
Thank you for your detailed reply. I find the interplay between genre and literary fiction fascinating, but I often worry (which I may not have expressed well enough to Teddypig) that it comes with a built-in sexism: Chicks write chick lit, therefore any woman writer should be ghettoized.
While I appreciate David's offense at what he perceives as the presumptuousness of the female M/M writers, the pseudonyms do recall the need for women to disguise themselves as men in order to be taken seriously. There is a scientist who underwent a male to female transformation, who gave a talk as a woman, and later overheard an audience member say, "I heard her brother on the same topic. He's so much smarter."
Aaargh.
I suppose (and I leave this for some PhD in Cultural Studies to explore) in that way genre is like gender--it becomes another set of assumptions for talented writers to overcome.
Meanwhile, I'm going back to reading Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars, another one of those "genre transcenders." : )
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SLC 12/22/2009 2:34:00 AM
Missed you by a year. (I arrived in '77 and what a time it was...) I suspect you probably knew the people my friends wanted to know.
Glad to hear your issues aren't with all women. You're right of course that even among high school outcasts, adolescence is still hardest on gay teenagers. But coming to New York, we all felt the power and joy of breaking away from our small towns. I thank you for reminding me of how much Manhattan meant to me at that time in my life.
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RP 12/22/2009 2:01:00 AM
Thank you, should have known and all.
(Oh, but she was lovely, Ms. Wood)
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 1:41:00 AM
It's from "Gypsy"
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RP 12/22/2009 1:26:00 AM
Louise? Which Louise? Would I want to be her? Or rather not?
Sorry, missing the reference here. Must be because I'm Dutch, or something. ;-)
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 12:38:00 AM
"I am aware it must be painful for (a number of) gay men to feel colonised like we lesbians have been used to since forever."
SING OUT LOUISE!!!!!
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David Ehrenstein 12/22/2009 12:36:00 AM
"I lived on the Upper West Side at the very time that Ed White describes in City Boy"
Then manybe our paths crosssed cause I was living on the Upper West Side in the early 70s -- moving to L.A. in 76. I first met Ed there, and he wasn't quite as "out"as he recalls.
"and shared that glorious moment of pre-plague liberation with a lot of male friends (I don't mean physically, I mean emotionally, as the boys told stories of their joy at being out)."
Well speech and action are rather different.
" We had a lot in common, actually--in the sense that my gay friends had suffered being the "sissy" and all the rest of the crap in high school, as I had suffered being the "weird kid," and suddenly, here we were, as young adults, in a world that finally accepted us, where we could completely express ourselves artistically and sexually."
"in the sense' only. When women start claiming their adolescent experiences were EXACTLY lihe those of gay men I go ballistic.
" Those friendships meant so much to me that I'm surprised and saddened that you seem to have had no such friendships in your life. Or perhaps you do have good women friends, and just resent a certain really annoying (I've met them too) type of fag hag?"
I do have good close women friends, and they're NOT Fag-hags. The late great Dorothy Dean (who was one of theose friends) said he preferred "fruit fly."
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RP 12/21/2009 11:17:00 PM
Interesting article and discussion.
I am aware it must be painful for (a number of) gay men to feel colonised like we lesbians have been used to since forever. (Been fully out since I was 17, in 1978, been with same partner since 1981, we are parents of 2 teenage boys.)
It's one of the reasons I don't feel at home at lesbian online places unless I know beyond any doubt I am either talking with a genuine woman or an open and honest (and respectful) man.
I'm under the impression most m/m romance writers just want to write a nice/exciting story, not to stalk gay men, btw. But yeah, I'm sure there are some individuals...
I still think anyone should be free to write about whatever subject they please in any manner they prefer. Just like readers are free to say whatever they want to say (and moreover, vote with their money)
Sometimes people just want a bit of light amusement and romance after a day at a job that never gets mentioned by 7 year olds when you ask what they want to do when they are grown-up.
And don't laugh, but yes, I am writing a novel about the relationship between two men, although I have no idea if it's genre or not. I don't care, I just want to tell this story to the best of my abilities, because it wouldn't leave me alone.
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SLC 12/21/2009 11:09:00 PM
David, I think it's time for me to come out. I'm a woman. A straight woman. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, I interned at Christopher Street Magazine. My ex-boyfriend had just come out; he was the first gay person (well, at least the first out gay person), I'd ever met. In both trying to understand him and live out my young-writer-in-the-city fantasies, I interned at the magazine.
I lived on the Upper West Side at the very time that Ed White describes in City Boy and shared that glorious moment of pre-plague liberation with a lot of male friends (I don't mean physically, I mean emotionally, as the boys told stories of their joy at being out). We had a lot in common, actually--in the sense that my gay friends had suffered being the "sissy" and all the rest of the crap in high school, as I had suffered being the "weird kid," and suddenly, here we were, as young adults, in a world that finally accepted us, where we could completely express ourselves artistically and sexually. Those friendships meant so much to me that I'm surprised and saddened that you seem to have had no such friendships in your life. Or perhaps you do have good women friends, and just resent a certain really annoying (I've met them too) type of fag hag?
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 10:22:00 PM
"I can't imagine why anyone would think that women have no business writing romances about two men."
OK, let it me put it to you this way then. The net is a many-splendored thing. It is also a great place for those with nefarious purposes to hide, stalk and strike. There are a great many sites dealing with gay male life that I've visited over the years for news, commentary, solidarty, et. al. These sites have also served as home base to women -- many of whom pose as men. I cannot tell you how many times in the midst of a perfectly serious cyber-chat some woman has broken in to announce how much she "loves" gay men, how charming and cute we are, and how she "understands" us as no one else does. And believe me a simple "FUCK OFF!" won't do. Therefore you cannot imagine the amount of hate e-mail I got over THIS!. It was almosst as bad as the hate mail I got over my favorable review of "The Last Temptation of Christ." There were only a few threats on my life in this instance -- rather than the avalanche of anti-semitic thuggery for my mid-80s efforts. Obvioulys this paper, and this comment board are not a gay male site. But reading the cover story was for me much like Sigourney Weaver's confrontation with the creature in the last reel of the orginal (and best) "Alien."
(Cue Howard Hanson's "Romantic" symphony)
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Robert M. Tilendis 12/21/2009 9:28:00 PM
I'm coming into this late, and I have to admit I'm sort of mystified as to what the controversy is about. M/M romance fiction, Western style, is not something I have great experience with (yet -- I can tell I'm going to get hooked), but I've been reading boys love manga for a while, and I don't see that there is all that much difference -- the creators and the audience are overwhelmingly women (except that the target market for BL tends to be teenage girls and younger women -- but then, that's a "target"). I've also run across excellent and authentic m/m romance -- or perhaps more accurately call them "love stories" -- incorporated into science fiction and fantasy, by both men and women.
I don't read romance fiction -- manga or any other kind -- to get a take on the "gay experience." I have my own take and my own experience to draw on, thank you, and if I want someone else's viewpoint, then I will read Holloran or Raphael or White or any number of other gay male writers writing about being gay and male. I read romance fiction for the romance. Yes, it's a bit of fantasy, which is exactly why I'm reading it -- any time I want real life, all I need to do is put down the book.
I can't imagine why anyone would think that women have no business writing romances about two men. As someone said above, it's not the author's authenticity, it's the story's authenticity that matters. I don't see, based on my own reading, that women aren't qualified to write romantic stories about men, and I don't see that men can't write good ones. I think men are just as interested in romance as women -- the problem is getting them to admit it.
Sure, it's genre fiction. All that means is that it has its own set of conventions and its own contract with the reader, as does "literary" fiction (which I consider just another genre). If anyone thinks that genre fiction by definition can't measure up to "mainstream" fiction, they've just been reading the wrong books.
At any rate, thanks for the article. Although I don't agree with everything in it, it's nice to have another place to spend my meager book budget. I think.
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 7:57:00 PM
"I'm amused by the way that you castigate us for writing about gay men when we're female (not necessarily straight, which you seem to overlook, but female) and imply that we cannot possibly understand our gay male characters because of that difference in gender and experience - and yet feel comfortable making sweeping assumptions about us with a smug certainty that's starting to verge on hilarious."
Need I point out that I am talking about PARTICULAR women, not the gender as a whole? Apparently I do. Or am I dealing with those who in the name of "solidarity" will back up every vagina-equipped carbon-based life form? Do you seriously imagine I would defend the likes of Roy Cohn or Mitch McConnell? AS IF!
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Jane Davitt 12/21/2009 7:27:00 PM
"Women would of course find it monstrous.
Which is why they should tend to their knitting!"
I'm amused by the way that you castigate us for writing about gay men when we're female (not necessarily straight, which you seem to overlook, but female) and imply that we cannot possibly understand our gay male characters because of that difference in gender and experience - and yet feel comfortable making sweeping assumptions about us with a smug certainty that's starting to verge on hilarious.
'Women' is not a single entity, but a plural, a group comprising a bewildering variety of views. If you were writing romance books featuring women, your editor would have strong words about your narrow, naive characterisations.
And I can't knit, but I do cross-stitch...when I'm not writing, of course.
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 5:16:00 PM
"David, you have an extremely narrow view of female sexuality if you think we don't also have a taste for rough trade..."
Not at all, dear. One of my very favorite writers is Patricia Highsmith.
It doesn't get any rougher than that.
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Teddypig 12/21/2009 9:50:00 AM
Would Brokeback Mountain ever have become a movie if Annie Proulx didn't already have a reputation separate from genre? Would that manuscript, coming from an unknown writer, have been steered towards a genre publisher where the writer would've been told to add more sex scenes?
**********
OMG! Would poor gay Clive Barker have ever had critical acclaim if we had not protected him from competing with the likes of V.C. Andrews?
Your argument is not backed by the evidence.
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Morgan 12/21/2009 8:20:00 AM
LOL! David, you have an extremely narrow view of female sexuality if you think we don't also have a taste for rough trade...
You've been out for an extremely long time, sweetie. Trust me, the girls have grown up since you were a boy.
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 8:04:00 AM
I'm reading Ed White's new memoir "City BOy," and as usual for Ed it's filled with great dish: a three-way with John Ashbery, a quickie with Larry Kert, the details of how Harold Brodkey ruined his life, and more! But I am haunted by a particular passage: "I tried to date Doug, but he was too sweet, too genuine for me."
On one level this is an admission of a fault. On another its telling notation about style. I know precisely what he's talking about.
Women would of course find it monstrous.
Which is why they should tend to their knitting!
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KS Langley 12/21/2009 7:34:00 AM
Interesting article. Covers a little bit of territory you've visited before. LA Weekly did an artile on slash fan fiction (specifically, K/S) in August of 1986 ("Sigh Fi" by Anne Thompson).
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Teddypig 12/21/2009 6:25:00 AM
Once any theme/plot becomes "genre," it's all that harder for any author who uses similar themes not to be pigeon-holed. I realize that genre authors hate the condescension in a phrase like, "transcends genre..." but it's true--there is a lot of drek in genre, which can leave great writers who work on those themes overlooked. Worse, and I think that may be part of David's point, it can leave great writers reluctant to even take on those themes.
**************
LOL! Great writers are being hurt now by bad writers selling so many books! Oh that is rich! Listen if you become a classical trained violinist please do not complain to me how you are not making all the money of a Britney Spears.
Please do not make a fool of yourself in public whining about how her success is ruining YOUR career.
Let me tell you a secret... Because even the most dense person on the street is thinking maybe you should have considered becoming a "Pop Star" if that's what you really wanted to be in the first place.
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Nigel Puerasch 12/21/2009 5:02:00 AM
Some of the most erotic episodes in m/m stories I have read have been written by women. I have no problem with women writing romantic gay fiction. Why should I? If it turns me on, or makes me glad or sad, if, in a word it is a convincing portrayal of two men in a relationship, then I don't giving a flying foo-foo valve that it was written by a woman. I'm forever grateful for Mary Renault's "The Charioteer" because that gave me the strength and courage and ideals to survive the discovery that I was gay. Mary Renault was a gay woman, who lived with her wife for decades.
My beef is with *badly written* m/m stories. But they can be written by men as much as by women. Who cares about the authenticity of the *author*? It the authenticity of the *story* which matters.
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 4:56:00 AM
"He obviously finds no practical use for women in life"
Only if they're properly cooked. . .
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 4:14:00 AM
That's basically it. I'd only add my annoyance at the extreme presumptuousnes of it all. It's as if gay men were some rare species of wildlife these wiley romance mavens have "captured" and have "tamed" through their prose.
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SLC 12/21/2009 3:34:00 AM
Thank you again, David, for the links. I've got my afternoon's reading cut out for me!
Since I'm just back from brunch, with a head full of mimosas, I beg your indulgence for a simple clarification: What I'm getting from the thread is that your objection is not necessarily to straight women trying to write as gay men--I think there's general agreement that a brilliant, literary author can inhabit other identities.
Rather you object to a certain kind of mediocre, genre writer claiming to be able to create authentic characters. On that I'd agree with you--I've read genre novels that have all the insight into adult relationships of a six-year-old playing with Barbie and Ken.
Yet I remain, perhaps naively, optimistic, that there are writers who transcend genre--and that one of these female M/M romance writers may one day (or may have already) written a novel you might find authentic. One of the major problems with genre seems to be that the publishers ask so little from their authors except for the ability to churn out stories at a breathtaking rate. Whatever their inherent talent may be, I'm not sure if any of these authors has ever been granted the time to fully develop their characters through multiple drafts.
Your point (if I got it right) is that a flood of such novels may drown out literary novels written by gay men about their lives. But surely that's also a genuine worry for all novelists. If a novelist of whatever sex or orientation writes a literary novel, whose protagonist happens to be a twenty-something single woman in Manhattan, no doubt it will be immediately ghettoized as "chick lit."
I think, folks, it's worth considering at least that part of David's point: Once any theme/plot becomes "genre," it's all that harder for any author who uses similar themes not to be pigeon-holed. I realize that genre authors hate the condescension in a phrase like, "transcends genre..." but it's true--there is a lot of drek in genre, which can leave great writers who work on those themes overlooked. Worse, and I think that may be part of David's point, it can leave great writers reluctant to even take on those themes.
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 3:31:00 AM
"I'd rather have the money than only being eating Ramen because my artistic work won't sell."
My, aren't you special. Alert the RNC.
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KB 12/21/2009 2:27:00 AM
Artistic success? Don't make me laugh. It won't pay your bills or keep a roof over your head.
I'd rather have the money than only being eating Ramen because my artistic work won't sell.
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Alex Beecroft 12/21/2009 1:54:00 AM
I think you're spot on, TJ. What a writer writes about is limited only by their imagination and empathy, and if men are capable of writing beautiful books about women, it stands to reason that women are also capable of writing beautiful books about men. We are, after all, more united by virtue of being human than we are divided by anything else.
You're right too that genre fiction is not literary fiction and isn't even trying to do the same thing or attract the same audience. Those who love literary fiction have an unfortunate tendency to look down on genre, while those like me who enjoy genre and find literary fiction tedious wonder why we can't all enjoy what we enjoy in peace.
While I continue to get letters from gay men who love my books, love a good romance, and are delighted to find romances that include them as heroes, that's good enough for me.
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 1:25:00 AM
Dennis' "George Miles Cycle" dealing as it does with love after death would likewise upset the ever-so-tender sensibilities of Les Girls, one of whom has already informed us she disliked the unhappy ending of "Brokeback Mountain -- the "Gone With the Wind" of "slash."
Marcel does not enter Odette's consciousness at all. She remains at a distance. He is, however, as one with Swann, who suffers as Marcel suffers. The climax of "Un amour de Swann" where he tries to break into Odette's apartment and is stopped by the cops is a recreation of what Marcel did when he was madly in love with Reynaldo Hahn. But, being a gay man, he got over it and they stayed platonic friends for life.
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David Ehrenstein 12/21/2009 1:18:00 AM
All those writers wrote about love. Gay love. And of course gay lust. You forgot Isherwood's most important novel "A Single Man" -- recently adapted into an exquiste film by Tom Ford that has greatly annoyed heterosexuals (see my piece for this paper, written last week but still on line.)
None of these writers wrote "romance" fiction -- which is part of my point. Frank O'Hara's poem "Having a Coke Wiht You" is intensely romantic. But not according to the rules laid down by the ladies.
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Emmy Frost 12/21/2009 1:07:00 AM
I think TJ should have my intarwebz babies. Please? Am totally in love, or something resembling it for the next 5 minutes.
James, Jet, Alex, Erastes, Charlie, and so many others...you ladies are amazing and write wonderful stories that I've enjoyed muchly. Rock on!
Aside from that...can you all please stop talking to the bitter troll? He obviously finds no practical use for women in life, so they are therefore incapable of contributing anything meaningful to ANYONE, be it literary works or otherwise. Nothing anyone says is going to change his mind, so lets stop trying, hmmm? Thanks.
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T.J. 12/21/2009 12:10:00 AM
Okay, David. Let's take a look at the male gay authors you mentioned.
"Proust, Gide, Genet, Beckford, Lautreamont, Isherwood, Frank O' Hara, Dennis Cooper, et. al."
Marcel Proust (1871-1922) --French author, critic and essayist. Best known for his memoir "Remembrance of Things Past."
Andr�ide (1869-1951) -- French author and winner of the 1947 Nobel Prize for Literature.
Jean Genet (1910-1986) -- French novelist, playwright and autobiographical writer.
William Beckford (1760-1844) -- English author of gothic novels, travel writer and art collector.
Comte de Lautr�ont, pen name of Isidore Lucien Ducasse (1846-1870) -- French author from Uruguay who wrote the surrealistic poetic novel "Les Chants de Maldoror."
Christopher Isherwood (1904-1986) -- English novelist (and later naturalized citizen of the USA), probably best known for the play "The Ascent of A6" which he wrote with Auden and the novel "Goodbye to Berlin," which was turned into the play "I Am A Camera" by John Van Druten and which eventually became the musical "Cabaret."
Frank O'Hara (1926-1966) -- American poet, playwright and art critic.
Dennis Cooper (born 1953) -- American poet, writer of articles, editor, co-author, blogger and novelist.
And why did I bother to list them? Well, to note several things:
1) These men are not--or, because most are dead, WERE not--romance novelists. All were (or, in the case of Cooper, are) literary writers. Not the same market, or the same audience. Ultimately, we're talking about two separate genres: the fictionalized semi-autobiographical novel/memoir and the gay romance novel. The intended audiences are very different.
2) Their works certainly are not being swept aside; I can recall reading most of their works in college.
3) A writer is free to write about whatever he or she pleases.
I do not think that Marcel Proust was ever a beautiful and possibly bisexual female courtesan in Paris, but that did not prevent him from writing about Odette de Cr�. Andr�ide was not a man of the cloth who adopted a blind girl, and yet he wrote from the point of view of such a man in "La Symphonie Pastorale." Genet was not a sadomasochistic female housemaid obsessed with roleplaying the murder of her employer, yet he wrote about two such women in "The Maids." Beckford certainly was not a caliph who renounced Islam, but that's the main character in his novel "Vathek." Lautr�ont was not his lead character, an evil being who had abandoned both God and man. Isherwood certainly wasn't killed trying to climb K-2 in the Himalayas.
If you will allow these writers the freedom to use their imaginations in their writing as they see fit--and indeed, you do not protest THEIR writing about experiences that never happened to them in real life--then I see no reason why you would not extend the same courtesy to any other writer. Oh, I can see you're NOT extending that same courtesy. I just don't understand why--unless, of course, using your imagination is only bad when romance writers of both sexes and every sexual orientation use it.
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SLC 12/20/2009 11:35:00 PM
Thank you, David. Unfortunately, I have to run off to a brunch, which is going to be a lot less interesting than this discussion, but I will try to reply more fully later.
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 11:22:00 PM
Special Bonus Question: " In your opinion, can a white gay man write a convincing book about the life of a black straight man? Can an upperclass man write a convincing book about the life of an impoverished woman, etc., etc.,.."
Does the name Anatole Broyard ring a bell?
And I am a great admirer of Edth Wharton's "The House of Mirth."
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 11:17:00 PM
Here's Pat when he was a woman
http://www.ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g012/patrickcalifia-rice.shtml
And here's the only other David Ehrenstein in North America
http://www.ehrensteinland.com/htmls/bride/efgh/b_theotherdavidehrenstein.shtml
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 11:12:00 PM
"If "Pat Pattersen" and "Chris Christensen" both write gay romances, could you really tell which author was a straight woman and which was a gay man?"
Possibly. I'd have to see specific examples. Are you familiar Pat Califia? I worked with Pat at "The Avocado" back when he was a woman. One could see this coming down the highway because even then Pat delighted in "genderfuck" prose. "Doc and Fluff" is a classic, IMO.
But it's not the sort of "romance" that's being discussed here.
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SLC 12/20/2009 10:55:00 PM
David, I already knew your bio, which was my point--I said "your *real* name is a *kind of* pseudonym." By a quirk of fate, you've been able to play with people's expectations of how a "Jewish intellectual" or a "black journalist" is supposed to write. Coming from that background, I would have thought you'd have a more nuanced, insightful view of writers taking on different identities.
As for forgetting the gay, which would be hard as hell for me to do, given that I once interned at Christopher Street Magazine, I wasn't aware that there were names that immediately coded as "ghey," except for when gays were being badly parodied as florists and dog groomers.
Disappointingly, for someone who makes a living writing cultural criticism, you completely ignored the question at the end of my post, which I will repeat:
If "Pat Pattersen" and "Chris Christensen" both write gay romances, could you really tell which author was a straight woman and which was a gay man? And if you could, would that really be an indication of the sexuality of the author, or merely his/her weakness as a writer?
I'm not interested in defending romance as a genre, but rather in exploring the larger question of can a good writer fully take on an identity not his/her own? In your opinion, can a white gay man write a convincing book about the life of a black straight man? Can an upperclass man write a convincing book about the life of an impoverished woman, etc., etc.,..
I'm not into angry battles, David. I respect you and your writing, and I really would like to hear your full opinion, rather than the quick flames.
Thank you.
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 10:13:00 PM
" But what I'm seeing on this list is one spiteful guy who seems to be exceptionally good at sneering and seems to feel that his experience is the only valid experience. Sorry, I don't buy it."
And I'm not selling it. I'm talking about a lot of different gay male author's experiences (I've listed a number of names in a previous post)
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Lee Rowan 12/20/2009 9:45:00 PM
Poor Don Hardy. Of the four of us in the Running Press m/m series, only one is a married het woman - but Don is always left out and he's an actual gay man... because, yes, gay men do write gay romance, but that doesn't seem to fit the stereotype.
It's kind of funny how articles zero in on the "OMG, LOOK--wimmen writing GAY STORIES!" when some of the most moving stories about male couples (Front Runner, Brokeback Mountain, Fire from Heaven/The Persian Boy) were written by women. It's even funnier when gay men get so steamed up about it. How many of you boys were outraged when Armistead Maupin opened Tales of the City from the superbly drawn point of view of a young heterosexual woman? Tit--if you'll excuse the expression--for tat, gentlemen.
Fiction is about imagination. Accurate reporting of one's own experience can be journalism, or memoir, or autobiography; it is not fiction. I do not for one moment believe that Bram Stoker was a vampire. At least, I hope not.
I'm a woman, and have never pretended to be anything else. If it were anyone's business--I think it is not--my pen name is androgynous because my birth name is androgynous. I'm a dyke myself; my wife and I moved to Canada in order to have equal civil rights, so if that makes me a romantic, fine. I see it as a practical move.
As for "Teh Gay Experience" ... Um, right. Get five GLBTQ (or GLBTQQ2S, in Canada) people together, toss out a topic, and you'll get at least six different opinions on said topic. There is no ONE true queer point of view, or 'authentic gay experience,' any more than there's ONE true religion or one perfect shade of beige.
Yes, there is some awful stuff being published as "gay romance." Surprise! There is LOTS of awful stuff published as het romance. Some real stinkers in sci-fi and mystery and any genre you can name. Since when is this news?
I don't know any women making 6-figure salaries at this, unless you count the decimal points--or maybe the publishers. But what I'm seeing on this list is one spiteful guy who seems to be exceptionally good at sneering and seems to feel that his experience is the only valid experience. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Amazon has a self-publishing system, and there are many other avenues to self-publish and get your work out there--either as print or selling e-book downloads from a personal website. Big-time distribution helps, yes, but the Internet is an environment in which anyone who has something to say CAN be heard. I wrote for over 20 years, amateur and for free, before I sold a book.
I don't say that my work is "THE" gay experience, or claim to speak for any other human being of any color, creed, religion, or orientation. I'm a storyteller. I write "what if." I write fiction, and I write happy endings because real life sometimes needs an antidote.
To anyone who finds this disagreeable--by all means, read something else. There are thousands of books published every month, surely enough for all of us to find something we enjoy.
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Los Angeles, Ca. 12/20/2009 9:45:00 PM
Very funny. The title is a reference to "Kukla Fran and Ollie." The book itself will be about sex and memory.
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Solana K. West 12/20/2009 9:33:00 PM
I for one can't WAIT to read "Raised by Hand Puppets." The puppet memoir is a woefully underrepresented genre. Sure, Pinocchio was a seminal work, but it barely resonates with today's modern puppet community. Let's see the LA Weekly do an article about THAT!
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Los Angeles Ca. 12/20/2009 9:09:00 PM
Writers who "net 6 figure salaries" have achieved commerical success. I'm talking about artistic scucces -- which as you should know is another matter entirely.
Or maybe you don't.
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 9:03:00 PM
What makes you think I haven't read any of these books? Oh I know - the fact that I don't like them. You're supposed to like them, you see. IT'S THE LAW!
My "literary endeavors" are entirely devoted to non-fiction, as you would know through the most superficial of "Googling."
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Wave 12/20/2009 7:30:00 PM
As has been said by some commenters, this article by Gendy Alimurung seems to be targeted to female readers of this sub genre and totally ignores and disregards anyone else. It certainly missed the mark by not including any gay and straight male M/M authors, as well as bi and lesbian women who write these books, which is an insult to them. I don't know if the author didn't do the research or just decided to ignore everyone but straight female authors. Whatever went into this decision it is an intentional slight that reflects poorly on this writer and negates the authenticity of the article.
I must applaud Alex Beecroft, Ally Blue, TeddyPig, Erastes and others for their forbearance in responding to David Ehrenstein's comments. I wish him success in his literary career. Men and women, straight and gay, write gay literature in all its forms. Some female writers of this genre have been acknowledged by the industry by being awarded Pulitzer prizes, which is something to be celebrated, not dismissed as if of no account. Clearly their books were considered worthy of this honour, just like those books written by male writers who were also awarded industry recognition.
Perhaps Mr. Ehrenstein should read some of these books before trashing them. Is he clairvoyant that he knows the contents without reading any M/M books? I would be happy to recommend a few titles to anyone with an open mind which it appears that Mr. E does not possess.
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KB 12/20/2009 7:26:00 PM
David, why would they fail? The proof is in this article plus the other women I know writing great MM fiction who net 6 figure salaries.
Sorry, take your jealousy else where.
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 5:23:00 PM
SLC writes �As you're well aware, your real name is a kind of pseudonym: Ehrenstein, the guy's obviously Jewish, right? And those Jews, of course, they write intellectual stuff like film criticism. Oh, wait, WTF, he's black?�
It's not a pseudonym at all. It's my actual . My father was Jewish. Completely unobservant but a Jew nonetheless. My mother was Roman Catholic and I was raised in that faith/pedophile cult -- absonding well prior to adolescence.
YOU FORGOT TEH GHEY!
No surprise there.
Erastes writes �I fail--entirely--to see why it matters what I have between my legs when it comes to writing.�
It's what's between your ears that matters, dear.
�Are there unrealistic interpretations of gay men? Of course there are. But has anyone read a Mills and Boon? The women in those books are entirely unrealistic interpretations of women and the straight men in them are worse.�
So what is it that you're asking for? Equal Opportunity Inaccuracy?
�I'm delighted to say that the majority of my fanmail (e.g. 99 percent) comes from gay men who are often over-enthusiastically happy (and I'm glad of that) that FINALLY they can indulge in the kind of romance that women have been able to buy for decades. Many have been reading Mills and Boons and hetero historical romance to satiate their craving for sexy men in historical clothes�
I prefer men in sexy contemporary clothes -- like the Babe-a-licious Matthew Goode in the current GQ. I doubt your fans have read Proust, Gide, Genet, Beckford, Lautreamont, Isherwood, Frank O' Hara, Dennis Cooper, et. al.
�I don't intend to get into a slanging match here, if anyone has any beef with what I've said, they can contact me directly.�
Don't diss and run, dear!
Here's the greatest gay love poem ever written -- read by the poet himself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDLwivcpFe8
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Erastes 12/20/2009 3:12:00 PM
of course i meant GENDER not GENRE.
*idiot*
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Erastes 12/20/2009 3:09:00 PM
I admit that I started out with a bio stating that I was a man. This was because I thought gay men wouldn't buy a book by a woman. However it soon proved to be untrue and I swiftly changed all my biographical information to female, and my photos show me too.
I fail--entirely--to see why it matters what I have between my legs when it comes to writing. I've never considered a writer's genre, it simply doesn't interest me. All a writer needs to do to write about other person's point of view is to be able t write. Michael Morpurgo and Anna Sewell didn't need to be horses. Richard Adams didn't need to be a rabbit.
Are there unrealistic interpretations of gay men? Of course there are. But has anyone read a Mills and Boon? The women in those books are entirely unrealistic interpretations of women and the straight men in them are worse. Are straight men up in arms about this? Er.. No. As a tomboy hermit living in the middle of nowhere I have nothing in common with a metrosexual chick but I wouldn't complain about anyone writing them. I don't feel threatened, you see.
I'm delighted to say that the majority of my fanmail (e.g. 99 percent) comes from gay men who are often over-enthusiastically happy (and I'm glad of that) that FINALLY they can indulge in the kind of romance that women have been able to buy for decades. Many have been reading Mills and Boons and hetero historical romance to satiate their craving for sexy men in historical clothes. To discover Alex's, Lee's, Charlie's and my book (and many others) is--they say, a real treat.
I'd like to echo what Alex said that this isn't a mainly heterosexual female thing, I don't know why people got this idea--woman of all sexual persuasions write and read it - and that Donald L Hardy was missed out from the Running Press lineup--I'll be interested to see if the troll here considers Mr Hardy's book to be more representative of the gay experience than Lee's, Alex's or mine.
I don't intend to get into a slanging match here, if anyone has any beef with what I've said, they can contact me directly.
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SLC 12/20/2009 9:23:00 AM
David, with respect, I would've expected a much more analytical response. As you're well aware, your real name is a kind of pseudonym: Ehrenstein, the guy's obviously Jewish, right? And those Jews, of course, they write intellectual stuff like film criticism. Oh, wait, WTF, he's black? My college roommate, who was black but had an Italian-sounding name, used to derive a lot of power from watching whites trying to recover from exposing their assumptions so blatantly.
Yet you bring the same assumptions to these authors. If "Pat Pattersen" and "Chris Christensen" both write gay romances, could you really tell which author was a straight woman and which was a gay man? And if you could, would that really be an indication of the sexuality of the author, or merely his/her weakness as a writer?
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 8:54:00 AM
A woman can TRY.
She will almost unvairably FAIL.
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KB 12/20/2009 7:15:00 AM
And why can't women write great MM romance? Does that mean if someone writes a vampire romance, the author must embody the vampire lifestyle? Or if an adult woman wants to write teen fiction, does that mean she can't because she is over 18?
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 4:28:00 AM
No straight woman was involved at any level in the 39 years I have been with my lover.
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Alex Beecroft 12/20/2009 3:30:00 AM
Teddypig and AllyBlue, you rock.
I think that getting straight women on board with the idea that gay couples deserve a happy ending too is a sign of progress. If straight women are coming round to the idea that love is love, no matter the genders of the people involved, surely that's going to encourage them to want to see a more inclusive, less homophobic society in real life.
I do think, though, that articles like this which present gay romance as a genre written by straight women for straight women, while taking out references to the GLBTQ men and women who are writing and reading in the genre, drive an unnecessary wedge between sets of people who should by rights be allies. We're all in the business of wanting to see gay love be set on an equal footing with straight, in reality as well as fiction.
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AllyBlue 12/20/2009 12:52:00 AM
It's a living :)
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David Ehrenstein 12/20/2009 12:46:00 AM
I stand just fine. I hope you find a way to live with all that esthetic mediocrity before it eats you up inside.
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AllyBlue 12/20/2009 12:34:00 AM
Sigh. You just can't talk with someone who refuses to communicate.
David, I honestly don't know how you stand living with all that anger. I hope you eventually find some sort of peace within yourself before it eats you up inside.
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David Ehrenstein 12/19/2009 11:57:00 PM
Sexual chords ARE emotionla chords. Always.
Of course they may not be part of the symphony you want to hear. . .
As for my stalker -- A Pulitzer? How quaint.
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AllyBlue 12/19/2009 11:32:00 PM
It's true that I can't know what it's like to be a gay man (or any man, really). I don't pretend to. I write romance, and only romance: love stories, human stories, not stories of the gay experience but stories of the human experience. And yes, they are indeed a very, very different thing from gay literary fiction.
Romance of any stripe, though, is NOT written merely to titillate. Romance is written to strike an emotional chord, not a sexual one. Even the sex scenes, while they ought to be arousing, are no good if they don't resonate emotionally as well, and if they don't move the story forward in some way then they don't belong in the book. This is the heart of any romance novel: the emotions. Not the sex. And emotions are an intensely individual thing.
For anyone at all who wants to know more about gay romance -- whether it's written by women OR men, because both sexes do write it -- or who is curious or worried or angry, I'd encourage you to look beyond this one article. Far, far beyond. This article is slanted, as most such things are, toward selling papers, and tells only one tiny little part of a much larger, richer story. Do some research. Do some reading. Learn more before forming a firm opinion. The GLBT Bookshelf mentioned upstream in the comments is a good place to start.
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Teddypig 12/19/2009 10:51:00 PM
Get back to me when you win that Pulitzer David or become a bestseller even at one bookstore. Till then I think I'm seeing what your opinion is worth.
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David Ehrenstein 12/19/2009 10:44:00 PM
If that's the best you can do you need a "Remedial READING" course, dear.
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Teddypig 12/19/2009 9:54:00 PM
Well, that was my experience growing up as a gay man and how I got into reading Gay Lit.
But don't mind me. I am not a sad pathetic clown trying to shill my books by stirring controversy while dismissing better qualified writers and feigning expertise while being obviously chauvinistic and ignorant about actual gay literary history.
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RMC 12/19/2009 9:53:00 PM
As a gay man who enjoys reading and writing gay fiction, I have mixed feelings about this article. It certainly was enlightening to discover that heterosexual women are great supporters of, and contributors to, this genre, but, as stated by others, the article failed to mention the outstanding gay male novelists who write gay male romances and erotica. In the past, I have read and enjoyed great female novelists, like the already mentioned Patricia Nell Warren, Mary Renault, and Annie Proulx, who have delved into the world of love between men. I have found their stories enjoyable and convincing, primarily because they were exploring a universal theme: the love between two human beings. However, their writings are much different from those of gay male novelists, like Andrew Holleran, Edmund White or Christopher Isherwood, who discuss the experience of being a gay male, which I don�t think anyone other than a gay male can truly capture. In general, therefore, I prefer my gay male fiction written by gay men out of sheer authenticity�just like a black woman, I imagine, would not find a novel about the black female experience to ring very true if it were written by a white male. Having said this, I know that the genre under discussion is a slightly different beast: one that does not claim to be gay literary fiction but is designed to arouse, titillate and show that men, too, can be sexually submissive and emotionally vulnerable�traits which, I have no doubt, are very appealing to heterosexual females. And since you are the primary target audience of this wing of the genre, then I could not be happier for you. But I am sorry to say that even for the purpose of titillation, I, a gay male, would not find gay male sexuality written by a woman to be wholly convincing. Assuredly, a very personally perspective, and not one that I can ascribe to gay male readers in general, but the fact that some of the authors mentioned in the article prefer to use male pseudonyms would add some credence to my point.
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David Ehrenstein 12/19/2009 5:27:00 PM
I have been living in the real world since 1947 -- and as a gay man in said world since 1961.
Bradley, Warren and Proulx are of passing interest only. IMO.
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Teddypig 12/19/2009 8:01:00 AM
Good to see some of very good authors mentioned in this article and some great friends of mine. As a gay man I was happy to have been involved in getting J.L. Langley (The Tin Star) unfortunately seen as M/M over to A Different Light on The Castro in SF where it become their bestseller for 2008.
There are so many women writers both "straight and gay" whom I grew up reading like Patricia Nell Warren (The Front Runner) and Marion Zimmer Bradley (The Catch Trap) and Mary Renault (The Persian Boy) and even recent writers who have moved Gay Lit to the forefront like Annie Proulx (Brokeback Mountain).
I find it hard to imagine any gay man, especially a writer of all people who should know all this, having an issue with women writing Gay Romance. I expect people to know their history. Too bad really, so many gay men seem to act like they were born and raised in a gay ghetto with no contact with the real world.
Anyway thank you guys for mentioning this important genre and I hope more people explore and read I know I have enjoyed it immensely.
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David Ehrenstein 12/19/2009 4:05:00 AM
I'm very judgmental. SOMEBODY has be!
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Jane Davitt 12/19/2009 2:19:00 AM
David, you said:
Sorry Jane, but you're not George Sand.
**
Indeed, I'm not. I write under my real name and I'm lucky enough to live in a time when I can do that. I'm not pretending to be anything. I'm a straight woman who writes m/m romances that are enjoyed, going off the feedback I've had, mostly by straight women and gay men. Simple as that. It gives me a lot of pleasure to write them and they provide a small, but welcome, boost to the household's income through royalties.
You also said:
Among my current projects are my memoris "Raised By Hand Puppets." As it's the work of an openly gay man with no sexual interest in women and has an attitude towards love radically different from yours (but typical of gay men) you're not going to like it.
**
And once again, you make a sweeping assumption. Please don't decide for me what I'll enjoy reading and what I won't. I own over 4,000 books and have read thousands more in my lifetime, and it's an eclectic collection, believe me. There's nothing in your description of your book that makes me think 'no, I don't want to read it' -- apart from possibly the author's name, because to be honest, you're coming over as very intolerant and judgemental and they're traits I dislike. If they bleed over into your book, then, yes, maybe I wouldn't like it, but not for the reasons you suggest.
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AllyBlue 12/19/2009 12:24:00 AM
Actually I never said the horrific situation in Uganda had nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with you. In fact, it has everything to do with all human beings on this planet, me included, because we are all human beings and IMO we are all in this life together. We ought to be fighting this sort of pure evil together rather than squabbling over who "gets" to write about a certain sort of love.
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David Ehrenstein 12/18/2009 11:42:00 PM
The "jerk" that's involved here has nothign to do with my knee. It has EVERYTHING to do with gay life which is more in crisis than ever before.
Heard the latest from Uganda?
"Well what does this have to do with me?" you say.
Oh nothing. Nothing at all.
NONE of it has antyhing to do with you!
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AllyBlue 12/18/2009 11:34:00 PM
All of those things are truly reasons for anger, and things that would make a person bitter. You have a right to your anger. And please do keep in mind that unless you personally know the people commenting here, you have no idea if their experiences are similar to yours. Gay men are not the only ones who die of AIDS, and you are not the only non-straight person who has commented here.
But the point is, the truth of your statements is not directly proportional to the harshness of your life experiences, or the level of your anger. The fact of the matter is, gay romance written by women is NOT sweeping aside more serious works of gay fiction written by gay men, because they are two completely diffeent things. You wouldn't say that straight romance is sweeping aside literary fiction, would you? Of course not, because they're two different genres, read differently, shelved differently, with different audiences. The same holds true with gay romance (whoever writes it) and gay literary fiction. It's apples and chocolate: no comparison.
I can't even imagine where you got the accusation that all female authors of gay romance are pretending to be gay men. It's so obviously not true that I can only imagine you just spoke out of knee-jerk anger.
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David Ehrenstein 12/18/2009 11:03:00 PM
AIDS, which killed of 75% of those nearest and dearest of my does tend to make on "angry and bitter."
The unkept promises of the Obama administration -- made while picking our pockets for campaign cash -- does tend to make on "angry and bitter."
The efforts of Rick Warren and other members of the right-wing religious cabal known as "The family" to institute the death penealty for being gay in uganda does tend to make onf "angry and bitter."
Shall I go on?
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David Ehrenstein 12/18/2009 10:59:00 PM
Sorry Jane, but you're not George Sand.
Among my current projects are my memoris "Raised By Hand Puppets." As it's the work of an openly gay man with no sexual interest in women and has an attitude towards love radically different from yours (but typical of gay men) you're not going to like it.
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AllyBlue 12/18/2009 9:53:00 PM
Well, personally I've never pretended to be anything but female. Most of us don't, I think. Also, as I said before, a large portion of my readers seem to be gay men. Make of that whatever you like. I don't aim my books toward men or women in particular, and I'm thrilled to have fans of all types.
David, I think it's pretty obvious that you've experienced things that have made you angry and bitter. And I know I'm probably going to get some flak for saying this, but I can't say I blame you for your feelings. I don't know what you've been through in your life any more than you know what I've been through in mine, so how can I sit in judgement? On the other hand, I can't actually agree with anything you've said, because the facts as I've seen them don't support your statements.
For what it's worth, I'm not trying to write books about "the gay experience"; I'm just writing love stories. I just want to write what resonates with me. And as I've said already, there are many very talented gay men writing gay romance. I don't think you can blame female authors for the slant of the article. As I've heard others point out off the forum, "GAY MAN WRITES GAY ROMANCE" isn't a headline that sells papers.
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Jane Davitt 12/18/2009 9:10:00 PM
David, many of us who wrote m/m romances or erotica write using our real name or a female pseudonym, and as people have pointed out, male authors have used female pseudonyms to write romance; Peter O'Donnell, who wrote the Modesty Blaise books, for one.
Your attitude toward romance as a genre, implying that it isn't as worthy as a mainstream novel for some reason, is one that romance writers, like myself, have seen many times. SF had the same hurdle to leap and I could add Westerns and mysteries to the list. Genre fiction gets treated as inferior across the board.
You said 'As a result a lot of serious writing by gay men is being swept to one side while this psycho-sexual hen party has its way with my life and the lives of those I've loved.'
I don't agree. Totally different target audiences for one thing. And honestly? Trying to belittle what we like to read and write (psycho-sexual hen-party? Good grief) comes over as so paternalistic and patronizing that it's difficult to take you seriously.
Serious writing has its place -- but so does reading for entertainment. They can co-exist peacefully; there's no need to censor one out of existence to allow the other to thrive.
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David Ehrenstein 12/18/2009 5:23:00 PM
It's completely fair. Your writers are pretending to be gay men -- which they are not. These FRAUDS are poaching on the exceedingly hard-won territory of gay literature. As a result a lot of serious writing by gay men is being swept to one side while this psycho-sexual hen party has its way with my life and the lives of those I've loved. I have nothing but contempt for this.
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Miss Means 12/18/2009 1:09:00 PM
Forgot to mention~~ I have never read James, Jet or Stephanie before. I just went to James's website and am gonna download some ebooks. That one in the beginning of this article is too damn hot!!!
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Jessica Freely 12/18/2009 4:49:00 AM
Thank you for a thorough, open minded and informative article. M/M is getting bigger and better every day, and support from mainstream media outlets like yours is part of that process.
Hugs!
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Pam Turner 12/18/2009 4:14:00 AM
I'm a straight female, married, and I like reading male/male romances. For me, the gender/sexual preference of the author doesn't matter. If a man wants to write romance, and I know some do, great! If a straight woman wants to write male/male romance, again, great! It takes a lot of courage to put ones work out in the public eye. That said, what's important to me is a well-written story with characters I care about.
Interesting and informative article.
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Chloe Waits 12/18/2009 2:06:00 AM
Great article featuring great authors!
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David Ehrenstein 12/18/2009 12:57:00 AM
Do "Slash" defenders approve of faux lesbianism in straight male porn?
Just sayin'. . .
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Shayla Kersten 12/17/2009 11:00:00 PM
Fabulous article! Thanks to James, Stephanie, Jet and company for representing writers of gay romance so well!
I love seeing the genre get mainstream attention. So many people I know think I'm nuts when I say the majority of my readership is female. Most think I write strictly for a gay male audience!
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T D McKinney 12/17/2009 10:42:00 PM
Thank you for the article on something relevant to the reading and publishing front. But a bit of clarification - less smutty MM sells just as well as the more explicit. I have one that is very sweet, fade to black as for as sexual content and even after 2 years on the market it sells a few hundred every quarter. And if reader mail is any indication about half of my readership is male. I can also state with no hesitancy that my MM far, far outsell my straight romances.
Like the other authors you interviewed, I'm female. The difference is I use my real name and I don't hide the fact that I write gay from anyone. I don't make an issue of it but if someone asks what I write, I tell them.
I think you;re only going to see this genre grow.
T.D. McKinney
