-
michelle 06/02/2009 5:20:00 AM
What can be expected when the latino and black communities have for years seen the gay population in public as white upper middle class men. there are many gays in minority communities but which black, asian, and latino gays, whether male or female, have stood out very publicly in the 80's and 90's for gay rights. If they had been as outspoken then we wouldn't have had this issue of 51 percent because the outlying areas of big cities would have, too, been educated.
-
susie 05/30/2009 9:36:00 PM
i agree that society has to realize that without a man and a woman, there can be no next generation. and the machines have as yet to rise.
nothing can be accomplished by yelling people down who do not suport one's point of view. it only alienates middle-of-the road people, which most americans are.
but we must all acknowledge that a population will decline, as it is in some countries which currently have a population crisis, if men and women don't procreate.
yes, it is possible to create alternative families. but it is not possible to delete either the male or the female from the initial equation.
historically, marriage has been essentially a business contract with women being a pawn in a negotiation between families. in the past, those women who could not reproduce were cast aside. but since the early 70s the concept of procreation/sex/love have been separated. but ultimately, from a biological perspective, procreation cannot be separated from man and women.
if the u.s. were to become a country of same sex families. with children existing based purely on donor donations then we will have finally entered the world of science fiction. yet the female and the male would still be in the mix. from a biological perspective there is no difference between a heterosexual male and a homosexual male or a heterosexual woman and a homosexual man.
it would be nice if we could all agree to disagree. but labeling people nasty names and putting their names on hate lists (to be targeted). well, that is what lenin, stalin, and hitler did. all to terrifying effects.
-
Larry 05/30/2009 8:33:00 PM
It is impossible to legislate morality; regardless of the final outcome in the political process the only thing that matters is the effect of peoples behaviour upon themselves and the society they live in. The very fact that the leadership of the gay community lost a well financed effort bespeaks the truth: they're out of touch even though they so adamantly demand to be recognized as progenitors of the new reality--'equality'. But the very fact that they ARE out of touch prevents them from perceiving what is actually occuring BECAUSE they are incapable of seeing past their own beliefs that a whole lot of the rest of society does not agree with. The foot soldiers of the movement out blocking the streets believe that by screaming loudly that the universe will shift--but there is a difference between historical biblical marriage and modern secular property rights. I do not believe our society wants to deprive anyone of love, companionship, and family. I do believe a majority of citizens are aware of the difference between a recognition of the structure of the very existence of male and female and that there must be a special recognition of that relationship--it creates the next generation of humanity; this does not deprive same-gender relationships of 'validity', it differentiates between the two. The 'shocked' leadership and community needs to remove the blinders and recognize it's own arrogance.
-
R.E.M 05/30/2009 9:17:00 AM
I, a straight male, marched May 26 in support of gay marriage because once a right is legally granted it is legally and morally impermissible to rescind it by popular vote, and because I stand for Love In The Highest.
The Lord would not create a gay person and a straight person and not love both equally, and not want them to have equal rights.
There is a war going on. The opponents are love vs. fear (hate is derived from fear). It is not a war of violence, it is a war of justice. Love will be our sword and our shield, and we will win in the end.
The march was led by a brave Christian pastor. She is not gay, yet supports gay marriage because she understands the full meaning of Love In The Highest, and joyously affirmed this to all of us.
The denomination that ordained her does not support gay marriage and threatens any minister who blesses such rites with being defrocked. Yet she rebelled and presided over several gay marriages.
There were those in the denomination's hierarchy who wanted to initiate defrocking, but because she is so beloved by her congregation, so popular in her community and has garnered considerable media coverage for her activism, the denomination's leaders have so far not dared to act against her.
Ultimately, Love In The Highest always defeats hate.
-
henry Pascale 05/30/2009 3:25:00 AM
God made marriage between a man and woman Adam and Eve to multiply offspring. These ungodly people who hate God..should be ashamed of man + man, woman + woman. This is not a court case, it's the difference between right and Wrong. These people want to pervert a holy thing. You people should repent of your ways. And ask God to forgive you. You want respect of doing wrong. You should be ashamed. Instead you say your proud of being Gay. Humble yourself before the Lord, for the Lord will not be mocked.
-
Candy 05/29/2009 11:58:00 AM
white privilege demands that everything happens IMMEDIATELY.
slavery was abolished state by state and region by region. female voting rights came slowly. and female property rights were still being sorted out in some states in the 1970s and 1980s.that's how things work in the u.s. -incrementally.
it is a myth that los angeles is completely overrun with illegal latinos. the majority of latinos living in los angeles are legal. and many are from families who can trace their roots back to when california was part of MEXICO. where do you think the words 'los angeles' and 'la cienega' come from? or 'santa monica'??
latinos have been completely locked out of white collar jobs and have very limited roles in management in los angeles. the entertainment industry is the bright glaring example of how locked out latinos are. not only in front of the camera, but more importantly, in the lily white offices of the film and television studios.
the situation with the gay community in california is that it's all about enclaves. people separating and shieding themselves from the majority population. and so how can anyone expect the majority population to relate to people they don't have as neighbors, friends, etc. maybe this has been done for particular reasons. but blacks never voluntarily separated themselves from society. this was imposed upon them.
-
Eugene Eugenics 05/29/2009 9:33:00 AM
In my mind (such as it is), Gavin Newsom's mouth lost the vote for no on8.
-
Ramon 05/29/2009 4:26:00 AM
"State employees are not entitled the same benefits under the state's long-term care benefits package." Source: LegalZoom.com
-
Ramon 05/29/2009 4:23:00 AM
"The federal government does not recognize same-sex marriage. This means that married couples of the same sex cannot file joint federal income tax returns or receive federal spousal benefits, including those from the Social Security Administration or the Department of Veterans Affairs. A U.S. citizen who marries a foreigner of the same sex in California will not be allowed to sponsor the spouse to immigrate here." Times reporter Rong-Gong Lin II
Saying that we shouldn't care because we have almost the same rights as married couples do is like telling black people of some dedades ago that they should not complain they have to be in the back of the bus, because they can still use the bus. Pff.
-
Maria 05/29/2009 12:31:00 AM
Candy
You are misinformed!
You write 'latinos are the majority in Los Angeles'....while that is probably true, most Latinos in Los Angeles do not vote. The majority of Latinos in Los Angeles do NOT vote as they are either illegal, legal residents who do not vote, children, or people who don't care for politics. While hispanics are the majority in numbers it does NOT translate into voting power.
-
Candy 05/29/2009 12:21:00 AM
google: California Family Code, Section 297-297.5. amended in 2005
297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights,
protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they
derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules,
government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
&
(c) A surviving registered domestic partner, following the death
of the other partner, shall have the same rights, protections, and
benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities,
obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes,
administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common
law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to
and imposed upon a widow or a widower.
-
Ramon 05/28/2009 11:39:00 PM
It didn't, Candy. YOU are misinformed.
-
Candy 05/28/2009 11:33:00 PM
and what is the point the domestic partnership law that was updated a few years ago bestowed the same rights and benefits on domestic partners as married couples in california.
are people in the gay community just totally misinformed? or is this about winning the hearts and minds of californians? tolerance and acceptance aren't the same thing. maybe people have been pushing for the wrong thing.
-
Candy 05/28/2009 11:19:00 PM
i meant 'especially since latinos are in the majority.' in my previous post.
-
Jack 05/28/2009 10:57:00 PM
Julia,
I find your condescension and short sightedness almost as pathetic and your arrogance. The gay community is one of the most racist communities that I have ever encountered. I know that the "up and coming" generation is more openly diverse, but that is mostly in the minority groups that see love as love and not the "proud and open" white gay groups. Let us not forget the open antagonism between the male and female groups of the homosexual community. Please fix your own hypocrisy before you try to fix mine. To address the "beating the (what ever prejudice) out of someone", if your parents did that to you that is on them. I have seen first hand people from all backgrounds try to beat what they consider undesirable behavior out of their offspring for generations. Before the gay community can tell me how they feel I should respect them I feel that they should pass that respect along to the rest of the community.
-
Ramon 05/28/2009 10:51:00 PM
For those who say it's a racist statement to say that the majority of blacks and Hispanics voted for prop 8, well, I guess it's just a matter of fact. And I'm a Latino myself.
However, saying that these two grouos sealed the GLBT community's faith in California is exaggerating. But I think the reason why blacks and Latinos are so frequently mentioned when talking about prop 8 is that, as minorities, it's a surprise that they went against another group's civil rights. We already know Caucasians can be extremely bigoted, so nobody feels like they have to be mentioned.
Oh, and yeah, the prejudice GLBTs suffer is way different than racial minorities do. It's worse: we don't even have the support from our families, that are usually straight. And I didn't choose to be gay, just for the record. I could hide my sexual orientation from everyone (including myself), but that would make me utterly unhappy as it made me for many years that I spent in the closet.
-
Candy 05/28/2009 9:08:00 PM
julia,
after proposition 8 passed last november, many people were running around protesting with signs that had MLK (martin luther king jr's) face on them. geez.
i don't know anything about parents beating their kids up because they like the same sex. and i'm sure this is not something easily quantified. but i will take you at your word. but it just underscores the argument that race and sexuality are not the same thing.
the gay community in los angeles has a disproportionate amount of power. why is that? especially since latinos are in the minority. it makes it a challenge for certain groups deprived of power to have sympathy with a group that has a whole lotta of it. because in the end we are talking about a community that is primarily white and privileged.
-
Maria Lepe 05/28/2009 8:44:00 PM
I agree with some of the other comments. It is NOT fair to blame African Americans and Latinos for the passage of Prop 8. First of all, blacks account for a small voting percentage in CA. And hispanics, although a growing population, do not amount even close to the vast majority of Caucasian voters. Although hispanics are overwhelmening in numbers in southern CA, many are illegal, legal residents who can not vote, under the legal age to vote, and many simply don't participate in political elections.
Hispanics and blacks should not be painted as gay haters by the LA Weekly as its simply lies and you are trying to rid yourself from blame when indeed it was your peoples' fault that Prop 8 passed. you need to convince the white population to support gay marriage. Why isn't the LA Weekly highlighting that almost half of the white voting popluation did NOT support gay marriage. Whites only voted by 4 percentage points more than Latinos for Prop 8. Why aren't you writing about the rural conservative relegious white population in Central CA and Thousand Oaks, Simi Valley, Modesto, and other places like that.
Since Prop 8 passed the LA Weekly has pointed fingers to blacks and hispanics numerous times and I'm sick of it! ALthough both minorites did vote in large numbers for prop 8, the white folks, because of their numbers and influence, have the ultimate blame.
Next time the LA Weekly publishes an article on this issue, focus on all the white religious racist gay-hating fanatics that outnumber hispanics and black combined.
-
Man/Woman 05/28/2009 8:11:00 PM
Being gay has nothing to do with being black, white, brown.
Liking the same sex is a choice. A man dressing like a woman and a woman dressing like a man is a choice. If you want to get married, get married. A true marriage is between a man and a woman, lets not confuse the children.
-
Julia 05/28/2009 6:56:00 PM
I think it's misleading to place the emphasis on people of color in this article. I agree that the "No on 8" side did a terrible job of mobilizing, but to say that their main problem was people of color is race-baiting. You had a national election where it was between Barack Obama and Sarah Palin; it wasn't people of color who did the damage. You had people going to the polls to punch a ticket for Sarah Palin who normally couldn't care less about state-wide initiatives who found themselves in the voting box concurrently. If this election were to have happened with no coinciding big-ticket national race, the results would likely have been quite different.
Only 6.2% of California is black, and everyone wants to point the finger at them. What about the 12% Asian community, if race is so important to you? What about people of mixed race? Do you want to try arguing that someone who is half-black is conflicted? And do you really want to hold all white people up as the bastions of gay equality? What a ridiculous, simplistic, and short-sighted line of inquiry. You didn't even bother to quote any one person within that enormous gay-hating Latino community you're so concerned about. C'mon, L.A. Weekly! Dig deeper!
Incidentally, to comment on the comment above, it was an arrestable offense to be gay just 40 years ago. You can still be fired for being transgender or simply wearing men's slacks if you're a woman. You can't serve in the armed forces. In some states, your children are taken away from you, and you die in pain and alone in old age without visitation rights for your spouse. A lot of kids right this second are getting the shit beat out of them *by their parents* for being gay, and I've never heard of someone getting beat by their black parents for being black. If you think gay people have it so easy, try being one for a week. And those "MLK" signs to which you refer say "MILK," you poor illiterate thing.
-
Candy 05/28/2009 3:51:00 PM
there is no correlation between race and sexuality. it is not the same thing. people who are brown or black cannot hide that they are brown or black or pretend not to be --unless the person is mixed (and that is only in some situations, because as you can see this does not apply to barack obama).
gay people have never been forced to sit in the back of buses or forced to sit in 'gay only' areas of restaurants. gay people in the u.s. tend to create their own communities separate from that of the larger population, thereby isolating and insulating themselves from public opinion.
blacks were forced to live in areas separate from the white population. this historical fact is the primary reason why black los angeleans primarily live in south central.
due to the isolation, intimidation, and deprivation (denied an education for more than 200 years), this has had an enduring effect on the black community.
the homosexual community needs to find a new argument. and stop carrying around MLK posters.
-
Lee 05/28/2009 10:36:00 AM
How are so many people deceived? This is how it works:
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be *wise*, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man�and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their *lust* for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.