-
Corysimpson22 05/01/2012 11:52:00 AM
Corysimpson22
0 minutes ago
Nobody said anything about being a femanist or any of that bullshit. I'm simply saying if a female firefighter can do her job right and just as well as a male firefighter give her some fucking respect. I do not agree with lowering the standards for woman I think it should be the same as men's standards. But open up your eyes over half of the men on my dept. couldn't pick ur 200 something pound ass up by themselves.....they have problems with 180 pound dummies. The fact is It doesn't matter what your gender is when we save ur ass your not going to be bitching about gender you'll be thankful your alive. Yes I'm a female firefighter but actually I hold my standards higher than the men on my dept. simply because I care about my job and can do it just as well as a man. So get over the sexist BS!!!
reply
-
Corysimpson22 05/01/2012 11:49:00 AM
Nobody said anything about being a femanist or any of that bullshit. I'm simply saying if a female firefighter can do her job right and just as well as a male firefighter give her some fucking respect. I do not agree with lowering the standards for woman I think it should be the same as men's standards. But open up your eyes over half of the men on my dept. couldn't pick ur 200 something pound ass up by themselves.....they have problems with 180 pound dummies. The fact is It doesn't matter what your gender is when we save ur ass your not going to be bitching about gender you'll be thankful your alive. Yes I'm a female firefighter but actually I hold my standards higher than the men on my dept. simply because I care about my job and can do it just as well as a man. So get over the sexist BS!!!
-
04/27/2012 8:18:00 PM
I don't care what gender you are... can you haul my unconscious 290lbs out of danger as quickly and safely as most men? If not, then STFU.
Do you argue to lower the hoops and change the rules of the NBA to ensure that half the players are female?
Would you argue that high school boys who want to play field hockey should be allowed to play on the only team, a girl's team?
Do you argue that male sports reporters should be allowed access to female locker rooms as female sports reporters are?
I don't demand that horseracing changes to offset the physical difference between me an jockeys. I don't demand that the Air Force change its weight requirements for its fighter pilots.
Are you a TRUE feminist or are you simply suffering male envy? If you're a feminist, you'd demand UTTERLY BLIND standards to prevent discrimination. No... it's clear you're a groupthinking member of a bullying standards-hostile mob which cares more about group pride than about safety.
-
Corysimpson22 12/14/2011 4:48:00 PM
Woman are just a capable as men! The assistant chief on my fire dept. is a woman, and she is awesome at everything she does with the fire dept. Also i'm a female firefighter and yea I look little but i'm alot stronger than you'd think. I beat alot of guys at the drills we do during training. It doesn't matter what your gender is, it's how hard you work. I think women should train to be just as goid as men if not better, but if you don't then you should just give up because you won't last!
-
Corysimpson22 12/14/2011 4:16:00 PM
Women are just as capable as men! The assistant chief of my fire dept. is a woman and she is awesome at what she does! Also i'm a female firefighter and beat guys at drills we have during training. It doesn't matter what your gender is it matters if you will train hard enough to be as good or better than male firefighters.
-
06/24/2011 2:24:00 PM
Most women just don't have the strength needed to be a firefighter. This isn't based on prejudice or bigotry but is a fact of life - why is that so hard to accept? When your house is on fire - you want the strongest, most qualified person to be there - not someone who got the job because rules were bent for them. Your life could depend on it.
-
pansylu 04/15/2009 2:09:00 AM
If my house is on fire and a firefighter comes to rescue me I want the biggest, baddest, bravest, strongest most qualified person throwing me over their shoulder and carrying me to safety. Honestly I don't care what their race, creed, color, gender, or sexual orientation is. What I don't want is some person, hired just because they were female or a minority, dragging me by my foot and leaving me unconscious on the floor to die.
I agree that no one should be denied the opportunity to apply, and no one should recieve extra tests, or special treatment.
But seriously, what's wrong with hiring the best person for the job?!
-
Jason 03/09/2009 8:24:00 AM
This article has validated a well protected highly damaging secret. Thank you for finally exposing the truth about dirty politics even on the local level and how it destroys and damages.
I am a personal victim of these types of politics enforced by LA City FD. Los Angeles is now out many millions of dollars and I am out hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost income.
I am a white male blatently discriminated against and simply passeed over for hire by LA City FD on 2 seperate occasions although I am a highly trained NY Paramedic with 11 years of prior experience.
Evidently, had I been a female or minority candidate at the time I would still be providing an invaluable service in the industry that I love so much and would not have had to endure such financial hardhips.
-
Check this out 05/26/2008 6:42:00 AM
http://www.firecareers.com/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=11&Topic=6908&srow=421&erow=440
-
lil nig 04/23/2008 3:13:00 AM
no c
-
Gladys 03/27/2008 12:20:00 AM
My God! How much money have you wasted chasing the elusive female. Please do not expect the rest of the nation to pick up the tab for Ms Goldberg's follies. Your California men need to grow a pair and deal with it. Just tell Ms Goldberg that not all white gentile males are Nazi anti-Semites. Either that or she has some unresolved issues with the men of her tribe.
-
swaaah 02/25/2008 4:34:00 PM
GIANT SCAM ALERT !!!!! 26 people out of a departmnet of 4000 members figured out how to "STEAL" 70 MILLION DOLLARS OF TAXPAYER MONEY ...with some of these "RUBES" stealing $$ at an LAFD recruitment event on 2/23 ...HMMMM let's see... so you say this job is SO terrible, you have pending litigation against the LAFD.. BUT for some easy overtime $$$ your out in public recruiting new Firefighters to join the job that you don't like??? HUH ??? You can't make this stuff up !!
-
I Dream of Genie 02/24/2008 6:57:00 AM
Dear Professor,
Don't forget about the pending litigation of the female firefighter claiming she had to have a hysterectomy after she failed to start a chain saw and had to climb a ladder. Another Genie in the bottle.
-
law professor 02/23/2008 10:57:00 PM
Corrupt system... You are correct. The Lima lawsuit was a proper verdict in response to the abuses and double standards of the Bamattre regime. My book will be dealing with the process of creating phoney "victims" like Pierce, Lee & Bressler just to name a few, and presenting these cases not to right alledged wrong doing, but rather to steal taxpayer money.
-
Tradition 02/22/2008 11:38:00 PM
Compare the LAFD with the Salt Lake City fire department. Can you imagine what would happen to LAFD firefighters if they behaved like this? LAFD Firefighters now have to "walk on eggs" in their stations... morale is at it's lowest. Here's the recent article in the Salt Lake Desert Morning News: "Pranks Keep Utah Rookies on Their Toes." (Sounds similar to what the morale used to be like in the LAFD.) "Adam Archuleta isn't likely to leave his shirt on the fire station floor again. Not after his colleagues neatly folded it around a plastic container, doused it in water and put it in the freezer next to the ice cream and pork chops. "There it was, with my badge and name tag, frozen solid as a brick," he recalls with a laugh. "You don't get away with much when you're the new guy." At least Adam fared a little better than another new hire, Justin Morrow. His first day on the job with the Salt Lake Fire Department, his partners left him stranded on a ladder platform and sprayed him down with a fire hose. "They were hoping I didn't have an extra change of clothes with me," says Justin. "But I did." One thing he doesn't have much of these days, though, is pocket change. Not when he and other new recruits have to buy two gallons of ice cream for the entire crew every time they make a mistake, large or small. It's all part of being a "boot" -- one of the most coveted apprenticeships in Salt Lake City... Ever since age 8, when firefighters saved Randy's choking baby sister's life, "I thought it would be a rewarding career," he says. "It's a job that carries a lot of tradition." Part of that tradition is putting up with pranks from older co-workers who were once rookies themselves. In an occupation where every call is bad news, "jokes at the station are the crew's way of dealing with what they see every day," says Adam, 30, who had to respond to a suicide his first day on the job. "But when we're out there on a call, it's always serious business."
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?id=58439§ionId=46
-
Corrupt system 02/22/2008 6:41:00 PM
The lawsuit Frank Lima brought to trial and won because he refused to give preferential treatment to women was not frivolous. The problem Ms. Pelisek writes about i her article is due to the LAFD hiring unqualified women and minorities, simply to fill quotas and drive up their percentages. The expected outcome and disaster begins in the drill tower but explodes in the field. The accusers and the accused are made victims of a corrupt system and management that values numbers over people. Include that fact in your book.
-
swaaah 02/22/2008 5:38:00 PM
You tell em' "V" and "Law Professor". You have the LAFD Troops attention !! Preach on Brother or Sister..PREACH ON !!
-
law professor 02/22/2008 6:41:00 AM
Actually I've been following several of these cases very closely. You see I'm writing a book on the subject, due out this fall. Thank you for asking.
-
TO LAW PROFESSOR: 02/22/2008 4:30:00 AM
To Law Professor:
Did you attend the trials of these so-called frivolous lawsuits? If you didn't, what are your grounds for calling them all frivolous? A good "law professor" would get all the facts before rendering such a judgment. LAFD management operates much the same way: rush to judgment. That's why they're under so much fire now. THAT'S what's PROVING to be so costly for the taxpayers.
-
law professor 02/22/2008 3:32:00 AM
The first victim of these frivolous lawsuits is the truth. The second victim is the taxpayer's wallet. Any "honest" lawyer will tell you that cases are often won or lost during the voidire process (the process of selecting the jury). This is so important that consultants are often hired to study potential jurors and make recommendations. Here's a proposition. Move these frivolous lawsuits from downtown Los Angeles, to let's say Simi-Valley. You can bet the ranch a not guilty verdict would be the likely outcome. Even the mention of moving these trials to a place were common sense still has a pulse sends chills down the spine of these scam attorneys and their stealing clients.
-
Thanks 02/21/2008 6:48:00 AM
If LAFD management can't handle their personnel problems, the grievants should continue to file lawsuits, take their cases to trial, let a judge and jury hear relevant evidence from both sides, and then let the jurors come to their decision. If the losing side doesn't agree, take it to the appeals court. That's the way of our justice system. The rank and file know that at this point, with the current leadership in the LAFD, this is the best (sometimes only)way to pursue justice. Keep us informed on the pending litigation C. Pelisek.
-
V 02/21/2008 4:03:00 AM
A recent increase in the number of individuals to file lawsuits against the fire department and the city may not be coincidental. The following is some information that raises some questions. Most people would agree that having an influencial and powerful personal friend and ally in the litigation arena is an invaluable resource, and if unknown � an advantageous ace in the hole.
Anna Y. Park is the Regional Attorney for the Los Angeles District Office. Ms. Park is responsible for overseeing and directing all litigation on behalf of the EEOC in the district comprising of Southern and Central California, of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC).
Prior to joining the EEOC, Ms. Park was a civil rights litigator and managing Senior Associate with the prominent civil rights law firm of Litt & Associates, formerly known as Litt & Stormer. Litt & Associates is Litt, Estuar, �Harrison� & Kitson, LLP, in Los Angeles, California. �Harrison� is Attorney Genie Harrison, who is in the process of filing a federal employment commission case against the LAFD that will involve the EEOC and the Southern California Regional District Attorney.
Anna Park, the current regional director of the EEOC has a past working history as a �Senior Associate� with Attorney Genie Harrison�s Law Firm and a long standing relationship and friendship with Litt & Associates.
The EEOC either does not know or believe this is a huge �conflict of interest� and that it opens itself to scrutiny of �illegal improprieties�. This information is unknown to the general public, and possibly to the City Attorney and that suspiciously, some may wish will remain an insider secret.
It is hard to believe those individuals who recently submitted lawsuits with Attorney Harrison are not aware of her Law firms past relationship with the current EEOC Regional Attorney. The firm, which recently and publicly solicited any (female) firefighters that, might have a complaint against the department and the city to contact the firm for a lawsuit consultation.
The Weekly stated that �the Los Angeles office of the EEOC, overseen by regional attorney Anna Park, had attacked the Fire Department without doing routine, investigative legwork. It called the EEOC investigation �grossly incompetent�. It does make one speculate if this long-standing personal relationship might have even the slightest influence in the EEOC decisions, actions and considerations for a past employer and colleagues?
The EEOC is not beyond reproach.
Source: Associated Press, San Jose Mercury News Date: Jan 25, 2006
Judge orders EEOC to pay $1 million to Pasadena law firm.
The Equal Opportunity Employment Commission must pay more than $1 million to a law firm that it sued unsuccessfully last year for sexual harassment and pregnancy discrimination. U.S. District Judge Dickran Tevrizian found that the EEOC filed a "frivolous" lawsuit against Robert L. Reeves & Associates, which practices immigration law. The EEOC originally filed suit in 2001. Tevrizian dismissed the case the following year and ordered the commission to pay Reeves $363,000 in legal fees.
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed that decision, however, and returned the case to Tevrizian's court. In first dismissing the case, Tevrizian accused the commission (EEOC) of "unreasonable and just plain mean-spirited" conduct.
The Department of Justice may be the entity that is needed to oversee the facts, evidence and investigative findings of this issue, which both sides should welcome unequivocally.
-
Mark Sauer 02/19/2008 10:21:00 PM
This is not a complicated problem... until you bring the quota/diversity numbers into play. If a firefighter is expected to be able to throw a heavy ladder, I don't care if it's only ONE TIME (it could be to save my life or the life of one of my kids), I don't care if the other calls are paramedic related (which by the way still requires strength, have you checked out the injuries for paramedics - lifting patients, etc.)? Can you tell us what is wrong with hiring the most qualified candidate who applies? Why pass over that person for one who is less qualified or can't even perform to the minimum standard?
-
Facts hurt 02/19/2008 4:55:00 PM
Such anger from the LAFD! So anybody who disagrees must be a woman, huh? Interesting. Sadly, too many posters (all LAFD members, by the way) have watched too much "Backdraft." Yes, gang, your job can be dangerous. We get that. We appreciate the work you do. But the fact is, nearly 90% of your calls are paramedic-related. So why is it that cops, who also have an - at-times - extremely dangerous job, are able to make women work? Ditto for LA County, Orange County, the Forest Service... just about everybody but you? Grow up, people. Wake up. And stop whining. This isn't the 1950's
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/18/2008 6:47:00 PM
First, I never said those were bad solutions. Second, the upper case letter and the "is that loud enough remark" ...come on. The name calling came from whoever posted that (Attention: anonymous coward) who says not to pay attention to what 'anonymous cowards' say, yet they are too fail to put their name. Lastly, I do not work for your disfunctional department. (thank God) Now, excuse me while I go to my "real" job.
-
Kent 02/18/2008 12:36:00 PM
About the last three posts... from what the article says, those posters sound like they were written by some women in the LAFD. Why? When they don't like the facts they accuse the men of anger, they resort to name calling, and they try to get others (taxpayers) on their side. Those eight solutions given above sound good to me.
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/18/2008 8:15:00 AM
where is your real name? you must be an anonymous coward also.....
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/18/2008 8:03:00 AM
Maybe they should do a "Mitchell report" at the LAFD .... sounds like steroid induced anger
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/18/2008 7:50:00 AM
wow.....what anger....and I am paying your salary....
-
ATTENTION: ANONYMOUS COWARD 02/18/2008 6:55:00 AM
IS THIS LOUD ENOUGH FOR YA, ANONYMOUS COWARD?
SOLUTIONS:
1) HIRE THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATES.
2) PROMOTE THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATES
3) NO MORE DOUBLE STANDARDS
4) GET RID OF CORRUPT "LEADERS"
5) ELECT STRONG LEADERS TO THE UNION
6) VOTE OUT INEFFECTIVE CITY OFFICIALS
7) REVAMP THE CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM
8) PAY NO ATTENTION TO ANONYMOUS COWARDS
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/18/2008 6:39:00 AM
Still, no answers on how to fix the problem. It just seems like everyone wants to bitch rather than make things better.
-
From the "Firemen's Grape 02/18/2008 1:32:00 AM
Anybody that reads the �Firemen�s Grapevine� magazine published by the Los Angeles Firemen�s Relief Association knows that AC of Battalion 3 likes to tell it like it is in the Battalion News section. In the December 2007 issue, AC writes: �The airline industry, medical schools, law schools and the United States Naval Academy have figured it out. You wanna pair of �wings� pinned to your flight suit? You wanna be a fighter jock? Wanna be the captain of a Boeing 747 jetliner? Wanna set up a medical practice in Beverly Hills? Wanna be a lawyer? Better study real hard and pass all them requirements of the Naval Academy. Hope you remember how to stitch up your patient after that major surgery. Hope you can demonstrate the ability to operate your fighter aircraft under life-threatenin� air combat missions. Hope you can land that 747. Hope you can pass the Bar Exam. Can�t pass the requirements of medical school? Can�t remember what switches, levers or handles to push, pull or activate in order to get that 747 to rumble down the runway? Can�t recall what button to push to fire that Sidewinder missile hangin� off your wing? Hey, it�s a demand� job. People�s lives are in your hands. People trust you and your abilities because you earned a set of wings that are pinned to your flight suit. You passed medical school and now there�s a �Dr.� in front of your name. You got a Fireman�s badge pinned to your uniform. People are dependin� on you in times of crisis to respond, to act decisively and to perform in an appropriate, timely and professional manner. Hey, kinda almost like in the Fire Department! Geez, sorry you failed the academic requirements of the Naval Academy. Oops, forgot how to put that guy�s heart back in his chest after the operation? Dangit, heard you augured a $20 million dollar F-18A Hornet fighter jet into the deck of that aircraft carrier. You ain� hurt are you? You know, we�re lookin� for the BEST. You�re FIRED. Go look for another line of work. Hey, put in an application for the L.A.F.D. Can�t pass the Drill Tower? No problem, you get as many chances as you want. Can�t raise a 35� extension ladder? No problem, someone else will put it up. Can�t figure out what to do at a structure fire? No problem, someone will come up to you, hold your hand and walk you through the steps. Can�t pass your 4, 6 or 12 month rookie exam? No problem, just hurt yourself, go off duty forever and collect money from the Relief Association. When that money runs out, the State will pay out. Other members joke with you? Don�t function well in a group? �Teamwork� makes no sense to you? Can�t retain any information or remember what to do after bein� told over and over and over again? Been subjected to and forced to work in a hostile environment? No problem. Call for a news conference on the steps of City Hall. Better yet, call Larry H. Parker� you know the story. Only got 5 years on the job? Barely made it through your firefighter probation, but you wanna be a supervisor? No problem. Get a special duty spot, get some tutorin� and bingo, they�ll hand you a badge. Pick your color. Won�t take responsibility for your actions, but are well aware of and have competent workin� knowledge of Volume 7, the DOUBLE STANDARDS volume?� � and on and on
-
Jake Stewart 02/18/2008 12:18:00 AM
I read the article, and all sides were presented. I am not alone in judging this as a unique, first of a kind article. Do some research past on articles about this subject. In the past, only the complaints (whether valid or not) of women firefighters have made the headlines. Fine job Ms. Pelisek.
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/17/2008 10:16:00 PM
It's not well researched actually. As a writer I find this article to be very one-sided. One of the first things you learn in journalism is to explore both sides of the story and that was not done here. That being said, the fire department obviously has some serious issues. I just want to know who has a real answer to this problem?
-
Neutral Observer 02/17/2008 8:44:00 AM
Wow, the comments here cover a wide spectrum. This story seemed well researched and well written as not many are challenging the story itself? It seems like there are a lot of unresolved issues with hiring in the fire department that have stirred up a lot of emotions. Well, thank you to all the firefighters for doing the job you do, and I hope you can get past this issue.
-
The Salt 02/12/2008 8:59:00 AM
I am still shaking my head after those two passages. If I knew who you were, I would buy you a beer. YOU ARE 100% RIGHT!
-
Ashamed to say I used to work 02/12/2008 7:37:00 AM
All the veterans know, the LAFD - she ain't what she used to be.
-
Saltydog 02/12/2008 7:13:00 AM
So a Professional Standards Bureau is next for the complaining members on this job. Such bullshit. I have one complaint for the Professional standards bureau, and that is the incompetent Chiefs and some of the incompetent Captains that are running this Department. The Chiefs have driven a wedge between us and them, and because we hate the majority of them as managers, they (The Chiefs) are trying desperately to put more pressure on the Captains to enforce their ridicules LAFD ideology. I have no respect for any chief on this job. I respect the badge, but as a person, most of them are back stabbing jerks. They say one thing and do another. You have One chief that goes off stress for a year because he is caught up in the Dog food caper at Fire station 5. Tax free money from our citizens of Los Angeles for one year (But from what I hear that battalion didn't mind because he is a terrible manager and fire ground officer anyway) a guy who threaten to sue the city if he didn't make Chief. Chief's have received answers to the EMT finals during our EMT recert. from the instructors. Cheating? No he is a Chief! Such Bullshit. Do you have any idea what would happen to rank and file if we did that. They fail to terminate the weak and incompetent. And some of the new Captains what a bunch of jerks, out here in the valley I hear at Fire station 5 there is a new caper, it is called "Cookiegate". Some Captain has a hard-on for one 25+ year fireman so he is accusing him of eating or as it's put "stealing" two cookies from another member that were on the rig. Mind you that this is just coming to light even though it happened 1+ years ago. So if it goes to the board of rights You could have the Cheating Chief of the EMT test, or a stressed out stealing from the city Chief determining this poor Fireman's fate. Can you believe this Bullshit. Then there are the couple of Firemen and I use the term Firemen loosely, but these members refuse to clean toilets or do floors or any other house work because it is beneath them. This is the bullshit that goes on this job. Julie Wolfe is right, just a bunch of whining babies. Babies of all genders, all races, all ranks. I'm so Glad to be leaving this job. If I would of known that the LAFD was going to be like this 32 years ago I would of thought twice. And if your thinking of a career in the fire service remember there are hundreds of other Departments out there. I feel for the 98% of the members on this job who are truly trying to wipe the crap off our badge that these few have crapped upon our badge. Unfortunately the Chiefs are just full of Crap, so it is an endless cycle of wiping. I would also like to personally apologize to all the fine gentlemen that at one time made the LAFD a Department to be proud of and made me proud to be a member of this department at one time. I am embarrassed to say I work for the LAFD, I hang my head in shame now.
-
An LAFD member 02/11/2008 6:34:00 PM
This comment was posted on 02-10-2008 @ 9:27 PM by "Blackjack" on Firecareers.com's discussion about this article "...You imply that woman in the fire service is a good thing. I feel it is indifferent. I don't feel hiring women makes us any better of a dept. What makes us better is hiring excellent recruits no matter what sex or race they are. Spending over 500,000 dollars on this joke of a hiring goal is a grave waste of money. We should not have to 'make this career more appealing to females and minorities'. We have plenty of exceptionally qualified candidates applying that already find this job appealing. For them it is a calling. If you are not enticed by this job the way it is and you need the dept. to make it appealing for you then you aren't right for this job. This job is not a 'job', it is a calling, a life style, a career. No matter how hard you try, this job is always with you. You take it home with you, you take it on vacation with you, you take it every where. You are a firefighter 24 X 7. We don't need people that are wishy-washy on this job. Give us recruits that are dedicated to this job, the people of Los Angeles, and the crew they serve with. I am curious though, why do I not hear you complaining that the Lakers aren't out thee trying to attract females to play on their team? .... "it has been that way for a long long time...Don't take it PERSONALLY..worry about you and what you and your crew can do...ultimately unless you are the CITY MANAGER, Personnel Director or FIRE CHIEF...your opinions belong in the rant and rave section of CRAIGSLIST and not on this board."
When blacks had no rights in this country people said it has been that way for a long time so don't worry about it. That wasn't right then and it is not right now. We need to stand up and fight this way of doing things. It is our lives on the line not the Politicians. When you say worry about what your crew can do, that is exactly the problem. If you have a weak link that shouldn't have been hired and shouldn't have been passed through the tower and probation then you put our lives in jeopardy. I refuse to die for a liberal politically correct agenda. Some of us that are dedicated to quality rookies, are seeking legal advice to stop this injustice. We are fighting for those who can't or are afraid to fight for themselves. We are fighting because the city is violating Prop 209 which states; '(a) The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting; (f) For the purposes of this section, 'state' shall include, but not necessarily be limited to, the state itself, any city, county, city and county, public university system, including the University of California, community college district, school district, special district, or any other political subdivision or governmental instrumentality of or within the state.'
.... Obviously the dept would never publish something that is contradictory to the female cause... Females stay away from busy houses (not always but more common than not) and I have observed that a large percentage hide in special duty spots. I have also seen a larger percentage of unfit females then fit ones. For females to be on this job they need to be in better shape then their average male counterpart because they are genetically weaker then men. (Oh dear did I say that. Please don't kill me all you feminists.) We need to remember people that we aren't selling cars here, we are saving lives. We do a job that not everyone can do, despite what Jackie Goldberg and some of you believe. All you future applicants (male and female) when you think you are ready for this job ask yourself can you strap on a 100+ lbs, climb 13 stories. Then drop a bag down to the engine below and pull the hose up and then go fight fire? If you can do that then you are ready."
http://www.firecareers.com/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=11&Topic=8879
-
Julie Wolfe 02/11/2008 10:34:00 AM
OLD TIMER are REALLY suggesting that I think no one on the LAFD has a valid claim against the department???!!!Where did you get that info from? So now who is the ugliest and most ill-informed(your words) poster on this site? 4 REAL, are you sure that OLD TIMER is a he? I'm thinking that OLD TIMER wears that new Siren scent that TID BIT wrote about. I know, I know, there I go again selling out my gender and saying anything to be accepted. WHATEVER.
-
Mig D'angeles 02/11/2008 3:52:00 AM
As a gay man. I truly belive that men and women are physically created DIFFERENT.
I bet that most of the females trying to land a job at the LAFD. Are butch lesbians.(and please, read carefully. I said "MOST OF THEM") I do totally respect women who compite with men on the business or political arena, and that is why I am votin for Mrs. Clinton. But when a butch lesbian on her selfrewarding and insatiable hunger to prove that they are "MORE MACHO THAN RAMBO". That is when everything goes wrong because when "my butch lesbian sisters" on their sick and unrealistic desire to prove the world that they can (or are) physically stronger than a man, and then they see their unrealistic belives(fantasies) shattered. That is when they take the easiest way out by making use of their right to sue based on grounds of discriminition. To all of you "BUTCH LESBIAN SISTERS" I want to tell you what you already know. The only reason why you want to do this jobs is because to you, it represents power. Power that otherwise you could never have. And lets be honest, when you are in those positions of power, you are the first ones to abuse it. I have been personally victimized by a Female Sherif Deputy, by a female Police officer, and even challenged to a fight from a butch lesbian sister only because i stopped from bothering my staright sister. not only i did not take on her challenge, not out of fear but out of my sense of reality because I knew she could not take neot even on punch in the face like a man could.
So. To all this unhappy women claiming discrimination based on gender. Let me tell you this. Why don't you look for a "more suitable" line of work? That way you could not get your feelings hurt beliving that you have being singled out for being women.
Or, is it perhaps that "someone" is showing you "the path to richness and wealth by been rewarded with ridiculus ammounts of mony in the form of settlements that come from MY HARDLY EARNED INCOME AND TAXES?.....That is even worst that being discriminated......That is plain and simple...being a parasite, and an abuser of our disfunctional legal system.
-
justin 02/10/2008 11:26:00 AM
Thank you for a great article, it was very comforting to finally see the TRUTH in print, if only the larger Media would take this article and run with it. Unfortunately for the REAL FIREMEN we will always do our job and make it work, no matter what they throw at us or take away from us. We have worked hard and suffered greatly for the Badge on our chest, but we will always be proud of our accomplishments and always strive to do better and to uphold the high standards and morals that were taught to us by the great leaders that made this job what it WAS. You don't just decide that you want to try and be a Fireman, it is a great desire from deep within that drives you to be the best and to uphold the great honor of be called a Fireman. It is a career to be proud of. It is sad to think that the ones who can't honestly do this job day in and day out are trying to ruin or mar the reputation of those who can. To them I say F.I.T.A.
-
trauma 02/10/2008 1:34:00 AM
Of the few females that we do have on the job, most of them don't even work in the field. Most are in a special duty spot somewhere. The ones that are in the field are usually at some retirement spot in the valley or some other slow spot on the east end of the city. Who are we kidding? The proof is in the pudding. They're not cut out for the field!
-
Louis A. DePasquale 02/09/2008 10:20:00 PM
Let's face it, Firefightering is a man's job.period
-
Swaaah 02/09/2008 7:32:00 AM
You Tell Em' "Insider"...Sounds like the Oldtimer needs a little "Tighten Up"....And I bet you a million bucks that P.O.S. works in the valley !!!! Weak !!!
-
the insider 02/08/2008 8:13:00 PM
Oldtimer....I know who you are. You're the person that complains that you're not paid enough. You're the one who says the Department is screwing you. You're right and everyone else just doesn't get it. The truth is you are the cancer this organization has to live with. The sooner you're gone the healthier we'll be.
-
Firefighter X 02/07/2008 7:56:00 PM
If we are professionals, meaning we get paid to perform to a higher standard, then why are we not looking for the best candidates for future hires? Why did we spend $500K on looking for any females, instead of recruiting great candidates especially when the city and fire deparment are crying they don't have enough money? Why does the NBA,NFL,NBL,NHL and all other professional sports not worry about having all right flavors on their teams? They pick the BEST player. If a player can't cut it, then they need to work harder, train, retool and most importantly, look for another SPORT. This job is challenging, demanding and requires mental and physical toughness. If you can't cut it, be a cop.
-
4 REAL 02/07/2008 3:30:00 PM
This is for those of you who believe we are cowards because we do not use our names. In this PC world, this is the only way to vent years of frustration and not end up in court for telling the TRUTH. Years ago when the female follies tape surfaced (thanks R.B.)we had a forum to discuss and defend our position. It was up front and in public view. Today, we would all be arrested for hurting the feelings of someone who cannot perform.
-
Petra B 02/07/2008 11:48:00 AM
Dear Ms Pelisek and everybody,
I read this article with much interest but was sad to see that it appeared rather one-sided and, especially coming from a woman, expressed a rather dim view on women firefighters. As a woman firefighter of seven years (and yes, all those spent in the field) with the London Fire Brigade in England, who does not respond to any medical calls (we have a separate ambulance service), I am fortunate enough to say that I have never had a problem with carrying equipment and have worked with some very good crews. Being a "big" girl has certainly helped.
For every woman that does not pass training academy there are also several men that don't pass either. Firefighting is not everyone's cup of tea, and the article doesn't really mention the hundreds of men that don't even make it through the selection process. Yes, it is a tough job and you need to be pretty tough to do it. But I believe that whether you are man, woman, gay, straight, black, white, have some form of disability, or hairy, anyone can have the potential to carry out this job. Really, I don't care who or what you are, as long as you can do the job of a firefighter. In the UK, a firefighter lost his leg and has just gone back, full duties, with a prosthetic. He is fully able to carry out the same jobs as his two-legged counterparts, and has bravely shattered the myth that you cannot be a firefighter if you are physically disabled. In London, there are over 200 women firefighters in a 5000 workforce (a slim 4% unfortunately), but in the Netherlands women account for 20% of the workforce in many fire departments. Unfortunately, it is a job that for decades has prevailed as a white male only job, and even today, that is an image that is hard to erase. Before I joined the job, I didn't even know women were firefighters! That is the lack of knowledge that is out there amongst the general public, and that is the image that needs to change before more women and ethnic minorities see it as an accessible job, and start applying in greater numbers. I am a firm believer that selection and training should be fair to everybody, and that everybody should go through the same process and pass the same tests. That would dispel the myth that minorities are given preferential treatment.
A question one could ask is why are these women not passing firefighter training? The article seems to state that these women are generally small, which in turn makes me wonder where the LAFD is going to try and encourage women to join up. Being tall and of a heavier build definitely helps, though of course there are always exceptions. The main requisites for a firefighter are fitness, strength, upper body strength, intelligence and stamina. The LAFD should look at venues and events where they can find such women and men, which should ensure a higher success rate at the training academy. In addition, the Candidate Physical Agility Test website is full of training tips to improve strength and stamina, and people going through training academy should be well prepared in advance.
The article states that 16% of women have suffered work-related injuries. I wonder what the percentage is in men? A concept that could help is ergonomics: fitting the tools around the people, rather than the people around the tools. Fire brigades in the UK are extremely health and safety conscious. They give you manual lifting technique lectures and limit everyday lifting to 25kgs per person (about 55 pounds). Thus, a 100kg ladder (220 pounds), is lifted by 4 people. It is in their interest to look after their employees' health - it is cheaper to pay a firefighter that actually takes up a seat on the back of a fire engine than one that is on light duties or off sick. I know that wooden ladders are a tradition in the LAFD, but how about looking at lighter alternatives that perform the same job? What is the point of carrying a set of jaws of life that are cumbersome and heavy and tire you out quickly, when a lighter, smaller set does exactly the same job, you can handle it for longer, and it saves your back? London places great emphasis on teamwork and crew rotation. After all, firefighting is all about teamwork. And herein lies the beauty of diversity: a diverse team provides so many more skills and qualities to a crew: the Latino firefighter translates Spanish for the Captain; the firefighter built like a brick warehouse kicks a door in in one; the woman firefighter lasts longer in a breathing apparatus set; the skinny firefighter fits through the manhole cover the rescue the kid trapped in the pipe. In order to provide a professional end efficient service to the public, every public service's workforce should reflect the community it serves.
The article makes several references to lawsuits that are going on. The LAFD should be ashamed that these are even going on, and the sheer number of them. Unfortunately, they are the result of behaviour within the department that at this day and age is completely unacceptable. It is tragic that bullying, discrimination and harassment still goes on, be it between men and men, women and men or women and women. For the department, this should be a punch in the face, a cry to come down hard on those that are the cause, and to draw up stricter disciplinary rules, to eradicate unacceptable behaviour in the workplace once and for all. It is so sad to hear the genuine cases of what goes on (unfortunately some people jump on the bandwagon when this happens, simply because they can, and they can be men or women, wanting a payout from the City). Wouldn't it be nice if we all grew up and started treating each other with the respect we wish to be treated with ourselves, put differences aside, and worked together, as firefighters, to accomplish a task?
Finally, a small comment to Ms Pelisek herself: it wasn't so long ago when the media world was itself dominated by men. Women were just the weather girls and not deemed worthy of reading or writing "real" news. Please don't forget those women that went before you, that have made your career possible. So it would be nice if you could lend a positive note to female firefighters trying to do the same in their own field.
-
Check out firehouse.com too 02/07/2008 9:35:00 AM
There's more discussion about this article on another website: firehouse.com
http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=97664
-
Posted by "Blackjack" 02/07/2008 9:21:00 AM
There are more opinions about this article on firecareers.com. "Blackjack" had this to say on 02-06-2008 @ 9:24 PM: "... Why is it that if you have an opinion that differs from the PC community that you are crucified as a bigot or close minded. The fact is that the majority of us in the field with the LAFD don't care who you are as long as you can do the job. We have problems with lowered standards and targeted hiring process. When you target your hiring to fit a mold you get substandard results. I don't understand why you "LIBS" can't handle a qualified hiring process. A process focused solely on the best of the best. The applicants that have the most training, education, on the job experience and are in the top physical fitness . It is a well known in the field that these are the applicants that have the best chance for success.
LAFDFF is in no way trying to discourage females from applying, I wish people would stop twisting what we say. I think he is just trying to make sure no matter what sex or race you are you better be prepared. Don't think just because you passed the Cpat (joke) that you are ready for the tower. And then don't think because you passed the tower that you are done training. All of us LAFD Firefighters want are people that can do the job. After all it is our lives on the line.
A huge problem is that we get people on the job that make it through the tower and then let themselves go. Stop working out and end up fat. Woman in particular end up out of shape and working in slow houses or do everything they can to promote to fire prevention, special duty or other position out of the field. It is ridiculous. One of my classmates (that failed the 35)will admit that she can't throw that ladder and refuses to work at a truck house.
Now Stihlmahn, do you think that is right for her to do? Do you want the best of the best or should we just hire people because of what they are? I think if the we go with the LIBS way of doing things then I should tryout for the Lakers. I am under represented there so they must hire me. For heavens sake why don't you people get it. You are putting peoples lives in jeopardy, my life in jeopardy. And for what? Political correctness? So the brass and politicians can feel good they hired large numbers of certain protected class. I told my wife that if I die in the line of duty that she should push for an investigation and if I died because one of these substandard employees that she sue the Cra*p out of this dept. And I am not the only one that has instructed their wives to do that. It is sad that we have to think that way, but when you work with someone that you know has no chance of pulling you out there is a lot of precautions you must take. The public is ultimately who suffers because we are forced to take less chances. We are forced to think twice about going deep into a structure or putting our butts on the line to save someone because we have a lack of confidence in our partner. That just isn't right."
www.firecareers.com/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=11&Topic=8879
-
B Lee 02/07/2008 8:15:00 AM
thanks for the comment, Hair
-
Chris H. 02/07/2008 7:15:00 AM
Yeah "speaks for itself," don't try and be mature & professional, we don't care what people think of us!
-
keep speaking up. 02/07/2008 6:44:00 AM
To "Speaks for itself" - if not for the courageous members of the LAFD who have spoken up publicly like Julie W. F. Lima and S. Campos, the Weekly would not have a story. LAFD MEMBERS: KEEP SPEAKING UP AND POSTING WHEREVER YOU HAVE AN AUDIENCE. No need to name the names of unqualifed or unsafe firefighters though. Just call them "suzyunsafe" and "joeunsafe." We'll get the picture.
-
Speaks for itself... 02/07/2008 6:15:00 AM
If you're a member of the LAFD, please consider NOT posting any more to this blog. We are professionals and we shouldn't stoop to this level of divisive squabbling. This story in the Weekly speaks for itself!
-
I'm MAD 02/07/2008 4:17:00 AM
I meant to say J.Q.PUBLIC
-
I'm MAD 02/07/2008 4:10:00 AM
I can see why this is such a "hot" issue, and I'm MAD!
If a family member of mine were a firefighter for the LAFD, and I knew that unqualified, UNSAFE candidates were being hired instead of qualified SAFE candidates, it would scare me to death and make me live in fear for the safety of my family members, all other firefighters and J.Q.Pubic.
These good people are risking their lives to save ours!
Let's hire the best people we can to support them.
-
4 REAL 02/07/2008 4:03:00 AM
Good shot short-timer. Old timer must be suffering from that disease call"some-timers".Obvisously he is a disgruntled individual that was so disturbed about our department's treatment of women, that he filed multiple complaints to his supervisors. Maybe these complaints are still pending. Oldtimer, what difference did you make on this job? Take the chip off your shoulder. Have someone in your family, that can read english, go over Julie's comments for you. As for the treatment of women, no one has had an easy ride. Including most men. What point are most people trying to make? (shall I type slower for you?)We are trying to find out when the word "training" had been translated as "waterboarding". Is it okay for supervisors on our department to test those they work with? If it were up to you, we would use light weight hose and diet water. Same goes to Kerridwen (above).
Stay retired Oldtimer and next time you want to blow your whistle, try sucking on it.
-
Shorttimer 02/07/2008 2:00:00 AM
Old-timer, you really need to reread Julie W. article.
No where does she suggest that no one has a valid claim against the department. You are reading what you want to hear into it. She is addressing the frivolous complaints that have no merit, or are you suggesting that �ALL� complaints are factual? You sounded like �Otter� from Animal house �But you can hold a whole department responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, and then shouldn't we blame the whole department system? And if the whole department system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Stay on course, your ramblings has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
I have been on the job for just 32 years and will remind you that you haven�t read about the LAFD �nearly every month� in the course of your lifetime.
Lastly, it is hard to believe that anyone in our age group would underhandedly attack a woman�s children and insults her daughters. Your sly remark about her daughters is real �classy�, it either elicits that you are pervert, a hateful person or one of the people that fits the shoe. Your sly comment about her daughters is the most hate filled and disturbing comment on this blog, one that I am sure you are very �proud� of and that supports your views and your �Respect� for mothers and daughters.
-
An Oldtimer 02/06/2008 5:56:00 PM
Julie W,
I'm sure you're a great FF. Sure sounds like it. But are you really suggesting that no one - and no woman - on the LAFD has a valid claim against the Department and City? Seriously? None of this ridiculousness ever happened? All the claims are totally baseless? Everyone that speaks out is weak and a whiner? You were willing to put up with the nonsense, turn a blind eye, ignore it. Good for you. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. And just because it didn't happen to you doesn't dismiss it, either. Ignoring it, when done to others, is perhaps even more cowardly. Men and women, of all races, have spoken out. There's courage in that, even if you're not able - or willing - to admit it. Call it dignity. Self-esteem. Respect. You pick the right term. Don't know if you've heard, but we live in a country where we no longer have to put up with the insanity inside the LAFD that we've come to read about nearly every month in the papers. And in the end, isn't it a little bit sad that all your fellow members that are dragging you out as a sort of "dog-and-pony-show" of what's right about women in the LAFD are basically the ugliest and most ill-informed posters on this site. You're a bright lady, you've noticed that, right? No? Then look closer. You've got some really classy co-workers, Julie. You should be proud. Your daughters would be lucky to find a job on the LAFD.
-
no more cowards 02/06/2008 4:54:00 PM
Nothing more cowardly than firefighters who smear others publicly, naming names, but hide their own.
-
Just a thought 02/06/2008 4:54:00 PM
Wow. Great to see finally confirmed what more and more taxpayers have been finding out about the LAFD over the last decade: it's jam-packed with gutless members more than happy to keep women in their place in between character assassinations. Naming names is a real nice touch. You folks should be proud of yourselves. Truly. Let's just hope that consent decree doesn't spoil the party.
-
The Laugher 02/06/2008 9:46:00 AM
All of this great conversation about women in the fire service and no one even mentioned the runner up queen of the department. The real queen of the jokes is Melissa K. but the runner up is a gal not very well known. Her name is Rosa M. Not very well known because in the last four and a half years she has only been in the field for a total of six shifts. Give her a break, they were twenty-four hour shifts. This gal has no more business being on a fire engine than the man in the moon. Injury here, injury there and guess what, she is still on the pay roll. The admin. puts her in the field only long enough to get hurt again and off duty till she gets bored. If I lived in the city I would be as made as my parents are(they live in the city) because they have been paying for a cow that can't produce. Oh well, thats the benfit you recieve when you sleep with one or more of the highest ranking chiefs on our job. Job security. PS for those of you who keep up on the latest, I know there is a male(the king of the jokes) -Z who has been off the longest and still wears the badge. This clown needs to talk to his daddy and hit the bricks
-
The Bravest 02/06/2008 6:44:00 AM
Re- Outraged Taxpayer. If your an Engineer with the Kern County Fire Department, then what is your big push to come work for the LAFD. Be thankful you have a job in the fire service, period. If we are such a jacked up organization, then why do you and everyone else want to come work with us?
-
The Bravest 02/06/2008 6:02:00 AM
It is nice to finally see someone who is on our side. Being a member of the LAFD, which is the finest fire department in the world, it's hard to swallow some of the criticism that is dished towards us in some past instances. I have worked all over the city at many of our fire stations. With that said, I can honestly say, that the majority of the men and woman of this organization are top notch individuals. I have worked besides women and even have one assigned to my current station, and they are able to do the job. There are also men out there who can't. As stated with some of the women recruits interviewed, if you can't cut it in the drill tower, no matter who or what you are, then the road stops there. Its nice for the public to see that there are people who are completely useless in this department. Such as the Brenda Lee's, Tammy Chick's, Elena Mattox's, Alicia Mathis's. The majority of this group make headway by trying to look like the victims and collect big payouts with my tax dollars. If you ever had the misfortune of knowing Brenda Lee, you would know that she did nothing positive for this department, yet uses the fact that she is a lesbian and everyone treats her misfairly. All along, she knew she had no business riding on any fire engine because she can't do the job. And now she walks away with $6.2 million? Unfortunately, people such as this use the fire department to hide their weaknesses and in the long run, ruin the reputation of a fine organization. If I couldn't do the Duties required of me when I pin on my badge, then I shouldn't be out there either. But, I wouldn't turn around and sue the city. That's because I have a conscience and take responsibility for my actions. With over 3500+ members, your going to have some bad apples, but their are still many of trees out there with good ones on them!
-
kerridwen 02/05/2008 10:03:00 PM
As a former wildland firefighter for the Forest Service, I hauled 80-100 pound hosepacks up hills, jogged along side Forest Service fire engines while dragging a hose to do 'running attacks', was required to run 3 miles 5 times a week and hiked hundreds of miles at high altitudes in incredibly steep terrain.
Working for the Forest Service got me in some of the best shape of my life. It also got me critically injured. I partially dislocated a knee cap during one fire and a dozen years later, I'm riddled with arthritis.
I'm sorry Los Angeles has wasted millions trying to meet a quota for women firefighters.
Personally, I would never try out for a 'city' or 'structural' firefighter position. I know dozens of male wildland firefighters that feel the same way. City firefighters have always been viewed as a little too cliquey, a little too fraternity by wildland firefighters. 90% of women probably cannot physically do the Tower drills.
That said, I wonder how up-to-date their drill training is? Does anybody still use wooden ladders??? What about aluminum ladders? As for hoses, the transition from cotton (very heavy) to synthetic hose packs (lighter) happened in the Forest Service years ago. Just because these jobs are so demanding in the heavy lifting department I wouldn't entirely discount some of these women's charges of discrimination.
-
my vote 02/05/2008 6:44:00 PM
1) Hire the most qualified candidates
2) Purchase the most efficient, safe and cost effective equipment
3) Demote supervisors at all levels who have proven themselves to be incompetent, or at least place them in non-supervisory positions
4) vote in union officials who will get the job done
5) vote in city officials who will clean up city departments, not just the LAFD
-
Joe Public 02/05/2008 5:40:00 PM
To all those that don't realize what it takes to be a firefighter you should take the time to experience a 24 hour shift at your local fire station. Then you would understand why it is necessary for those men and women to be well trained and fit to do their jobs. (saving lives) Experience what they do and see what they see day in and day out. So as a taxpayer I want the best to protect me and my family. No cry babies and those that are seeking frivolous lawsuits as an EASY WAY OUT!!!
-
NO ON "S" 02/05/2008 7:30:00 AM
I'm furious that the fire chief is now asking taxpayers to pass Measure S tomorrow, the Los Angeles telephone users tax so the fire department can get MORE of OUR money to pay for his administration's incompetence!!!!!! Does he think we're all FOOLS? Well.... maybe we are. We'll see tomorrow.
-
BALONEY! 02/05/2008 5:57:00 AM
So now we learn that the LAFD's answer to this mess is to create a new Professional Standards Bureau to handle discipline and complaints, adding a minimum of two million dollars more a year to their budget. Once again the LAFD has chosen to ignore the real problems and instead throw money at the problems, thereby maintaining the status quo - i.e., We need more staff, more money, and more power! BALONEY!
-
Jil Lehr 02/05/2008 5:47:00 AM
Julie W. You rock. Frank Lima is proud to work with you.
Jil Lehr (Frank's Mom)
-
FireMan 02/05/2008 4:44:00 AM
This was full of facts! Thank you for telling the truth! Anyone who really understands this job knows it's not for everyone! If you didn't like what you read, go into a different line of work. I only wish the LA Times would print this.
-
Zung Vu Tran PhD 02/05/2008 12:32:00 AM
A balanced, objective article - few people realize that of all the emergency services, firefighting is the most physically demanding of all. Physical tests and training discriminate against smaller, weaker people, not women in general. For obvious reasons, more women fall into that category, although there are ample numbers of small, weak men who would not make it as a firefighter.
-
F. Johnson 02/04/2008 11:43:00 PM
If firefighters weren't speaking out and filing lawsuits and WINNING in the courts, all of this would have been swept under the rug and the abuse of firefighters would continue, with no attempt to fix the broken system. That's says a lot about the inept (corrupt?) managers in the LAFD and the negligent city government officials who have allowed this to go for so many years. When things are allowed to go for so LONG without oversight and accountability, you're bound to have BIG COSTLY problems. The bill is mounting for the taxpayers. But we have some blame to bear too because we continue to reelect the offenders. I appreciate this article. My eyes have been opened!
-
Tid Bit 02/04/2008 11:59:00 AM
Perjury is the name of game now, huh Chiefs. I dream of "genie harrison", in the bottle is the new siren scent for sale. Genie is trying to shake her title "so your the dog food (lady) lawyer." Will Alicia Mathis "kiss and tell" who was the alleged attacker. For all we know he/she may still be out there. Finally, MS. Davies and MS. Mattox. If there were ever 2 more deserving women of a financial payout it has got to be them. Poor Elena Mattox had to have a hysterectomy due to the time of life, poor hygiene and don't forget her inability to start a chain saw and climb a ladder. It was quite easy to blame someone else for her misfortunes. Just ask her. Finally, D'Lisa "Goodluck".
Great Job, Ms.Pelisek
-
soon 2 drop 02/04/2008 9:25:00 AM
pelisek, good story. not perfect but allot better than the times.
julie, good comment.
the biggest prejudice i've seen has to do w/ firebrats. firemen's kids. they still get the nod. most are good, but the poor ones would make women & blacks (or mexicans) blush
-
Julie Wolfe 02/04/2008 8:23:00 AM
Thank you Christine Pelisek for doing your homework. You hit the
nail on the head. I've been waiting for this article since the
"female follies." I have been a member of the LAFD for 20 years.
I have never demanded acceptance like some women and young members.
I,like so many other men and women (of every color,ethnic group and
religion) on this department have been accepted for my performance,
work ethic and good attitude. To you,"Cavewoman no more" I haven't
sold out my gender. Some members of my gender have sold out me and
other qualified women on this department. I do have two daughters
Cavewoman, ages 14 and 8. They don't know what a feminist is yet
but they don't let being a girl stop them from doing anything. I AM
a good example for my girls and I'd be a happy parent if my girls grow
up with high standards, a good work ethic, took pride in their work,
wouldn't whine, complain, make excuses, or blame others for their
short comings. Hopefully they will have enough self confidence and
self esteem in themselves that the word,"fireman" won't offend
them. As for you, "Wife of a trash collector" I'm not really sure
what a "she man" is. Is that a lesbian thing? I can assure you
that I'm not,"scared to be a female." Off duty I am a female first.
On duty I'm a firefighter first. (Being professional is our
duty/responsibility isn't it?) I believe your quote was that I was
scared to be a female and would do anything for acceptance.Trash
collector's wife you must have me confused with some of the other
females on the job that WILL DO anything for acceptance. You know
the type. They flirt and even have sex with their supervisors and
peers to overcome their weaknesses and gain acceptance. Is that
what you call Integrity? As for all you cry babies that are upset
because I called you a cry baby.... if the shoe fits! Unfortunately
the public and the juries don't know that you cry babies had issues
before you were hired with the LAFD and would have problems working
at McDonalds.
Julie Wolfe
-
a reader 02/04/2008 7:29:00 AM
Why hasn't the firefighter union done something about this?
-
the insider 02/04/2008 12:44:00 AM
Your Solutions. Thanks for the response. The L.A. City Fire Department has had the answer to this question for more than 30 years. Since 80% of our call load is medical, and requires less physicality than fire fighting, let's reestablish the position of single function paramedic. This is a back to the future idea because we used to do business this way. The truth is, we were better paramedics and better firefighters back then. This would open a career door to good people with the desire to serve the public but lacking the strength and stamina required of firefighters. This is a real solution to a very real problem. Let's get started with the fix. The status quo is costing you. The taxpayers must be heard.
-
Your solution? 02/03/2008 11:47:00 PM
To all the firefighters who have posted here: 1) How are you active in trying to change the corrupt system in your department? 2) What do you suggest as a solution(s) to these problems keeping in mind that some departments are given quotas as to the number of women and minorities they hire (though they don't call them quota's, they call them percentages)? Thanks.
-
CoFF 02/03/2008 10:23:00 PM
Hmmm... You really sound like one of the weaker males or females that couldn't cut it anywhere. You have issues with the Fire Service in general and it's obvious. The problem starts with your lack of understanding of what we do. You should just ask - you'll then know that there are reasons for double parking or parking in the red and I'm still trying to figure out the porn surfing thing???
24 hour shifts are necessary as a cost savings to budgets. Count the number of LAPD Officers in comparison to Firefighters to protect the same city. It's an advantage to the City - not Firefighters. Trust me - it's no fun hearing the bell at 3am afer sleeping maybe 45 minutes since the last run. We work 56 hours a week. Officers work an average of 40. Do the math.
LACoFD is another Dept that uses wooden ladders and it's not because of tradition - it's because they are the best out there. There is a great deal of maintenance involved and most Departments have switched to save $$$ at the cost of FF Safety. It's a fact. The power companies will never use a ladder under fire conditions so they could use a rope ladder and still get the job done. Terrible comparison on your part.
I will not compare the City and the County but it's unfortunate what's in the media. Whether true or false! Bottom line is this - I want to work with someone that I can trust - male or female - and in my Department I know several females that I would take over some of the males any day...
Should we recruit females? Sure. Should we have a good representation of the LA melting pot in our stations? Sure. Sould standards be lowered to achieve this mixture?? Absolutely NOT!!!
-
the insider 02/03/2008 9:18:00 PM
Dear Ms. Ward,
I certainly hope that your daughter is successful but do not base your feelings on the fact that she passed the CPAT with "flying colors." The CPAT has no connection to the physical requirements of being an L.A. City Firefighter. The CPAT was again a political compromise made by the Bamattre regime to make the job more accessable to people not normally strong enough to do the job. The argument at the time was that it (the CPAT) was "better than nothing." I don't disagree. However, all it really accomplished was sending lots of physically unprepared men and women to the Drill Tower. The cost to the taxpayers has been an explosion in work related injuries both in the Tower and in the field. None of these FACTS mean that your daughter will not be successful. But those are the facts regarding the impact of the CPAT. Another taxpayer fleecing.
-
WANTED: LEADERS 02/03/2008 7:44:00 PM
To the insider: Do you agree that the root of the problem is bad leadership? Bad leadership within city government, the administration of the LAFD and also the firefighters' union, UFLAC? Until we are rid of weak leaders at these levels and until they are replaced with strong ones, these and other serious problems will continue. Case in point - Chief Emile Mack was promoted to second in command by Fire Chief Barry. Instead of solving problems, Barry (like Bamattre before him) is creating problems.
-
the insider 02/03/2008 8:59:00 AM
Attention all taxpayers in the City of Los Angeles! Most of the frivolous lawsuits you are going to be paying for were filed by piles of @#$%* who were recommended for termination in the Drill Tower but were sent to the field by Bill Bamattre and Emile Mack.
-
the insider 02/03/2008 8:51:00 AM
The only thing harder to handle than the weight of our equipment is the truth!
-
Saltydog 02/03/2008 6:59:00 AM
Being a LAFD member for over 32 years it was a wooden ladder that saved my life as the roof was collapsing under my feet. Even though the top 8 feet of the fly section was burning from the radiant heat I was able to exit the roof safely. I believe that if it was an aluminum or fiberglass ladder things would of turned out a lot different. Or the time a high voltage line landed on my ladder as I help rescue a electrocuted tree trimmer, I thanked God that day that the City bought wooden ladders. "Wooden ladders are just tradition", states one retired member. I think you are smoking the devils lettuce. The city buys us the best, and I have as of yet seen a wooden ladder fail under the extremes of fire conditions or I have yet seen one conduct electricity. They are heavy as hell, but I would bet my life on them. Also, do not have a problem working with anyone who can handle the extreme conditions that we encounter on this job. It is hard physical work. But it is unfair to subject us to the Women and Men who can not handle this job on a physical level. I have seen and have known many men that have died on this job in 32 years, this isn't McDonald's, this shit can kill you... This city's politicians and anyone else who thinks that any woman can just come into this career off the streets and do this job are also smok'in the devils lettuce. It takes an exceptional woman to be able to handle it physically and mentally. And as far as exceptional women on this Department, Your not going to find any better than Julie Wolfe. Julie is a mother, a wife, a friend and one hell of a Firefighter. She is one woman/firefighter that I know will have my back if things turn to shit. How many other female firefighters can I say that about on this Department, Few. Those are the few that are bad mouthing Julie and this Department on this blog. Remember sub-standard training brings sub-standard people, My Wife, My kids and Myself depend on only the best Firefighter this Department can produce. Because the bottom line is, we all want to go home at 6:30 the next morning...
-
gisele ward 02/03/2008 4:56:00 AM
my daughter is applying to the fire dept. she passed the CPAT with flying colors and is taking the written test next week. she has B.S in Kenesioloigy and has been a county lifeguard for 5 years. she is determined to make it and wants to become a fire medic. i hope she can prove the odds against her are wrong!
-
4 Real 02/02/2008 3:51:00 PM
To HMMMMM. I didn't even know our equipment was heavy until I read this article but that's besides the point. I want to thank you for being such an EASY target. BANG!. Your support of B. Lee is misguided. Let's not thank E. for the $6.2mil, lets thank A.C. Rox B. for the altered female follies tape and Jackie "cheesburger" G. This class was bought because of that tape and Lee was in that class. BANG! LA.Co. Fd does have issues and fewer females. BANG! In 1995, 3 of our stations tested your composite ladders and found that they weighed only 2 pounds less. BANG! Sleeping in the stations is necessary for the protection of our citizens and not the benefit of our members. BANG! You mentioned JA. Remember this is a battle over physical performance not pranks. BANG! I know a chief who could not pass the Capt II exam and got promoted to chief. BANG! I looked on the internet to seach your comment about bologna sandwichs and I found nothing that related to ladders, but I did find out that science is getting closer to a cure for PENIS ENVY. There is hope for you. BANG! please review my first response and notice that I place a blame on this department for poor performing men as well. If you can't do the job as is, look somewhere else. (your turn).
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/02/2008 12:42:00 AM
This article and these comments make me sick. If you can do the job- man or woman- then more power to you. Believe me there are plenty of men on the job that can't carry their own weight up a flight of stairs or raise the 35' ladder. And what do you do about those guys? The halyard change on the 35' was not because of the women. Their were men not able to raise the halyard at division evaluation prior to the pulley change on the halyard, but god forbid we address that issue. The bottom line is----No matter what, one needs to be able to perform all the duties of the job.. male or female. Stop with the setback articles. Get your facts right.
-
curious 02/01/2008 11:15:00 PM
Hmmmmmm...Are you talking about the harmless popular song "Who Let The Jews Out"... that was written by a Jew? Look it up on:
www.passovergreeting.com
What's your question about it? What does it have to do with this article or the LAFD?
-
R. Collins 02/01/2008 7:32:00 PM
LADDERS - weigh the actual benefits and risks of using different ladders... include input from the firefighters who use the ladders and are asked to put their lives on the line... include input from taxpayers who pay top dollar for what they expect will be the safest equipment. Same goes for FIREFIGHTERS - weigh the benefits and risks of hiring any person (male or female) who can't perform to the minimum objective standards... include input from the firefighters who are forced to work with unqualified firefighters who should have been terminated in the drill tower or field due to failure to meeet the minimum standards... and get input from the taxpayers who are paying top dollar and assume that their money is being spent to hire the most qualified candidates. Makes sense to me.
-
More Hmmmmm.... 02/01/2008 5:17:00 PM
Con't from above:
Another tradition I'm curious about is living at stations. As in: Why is it needed? Granted, it's a great gig. Getting paid to sleep, the occasional volleyball game, being able to surf porn in front of female co-workers, double-parking in front of Coffee Bean and Tea Leafs. Oh, there�s also pissing in mouthwash bottles, bananas in lockers, pubic hair on toothbrushes. Good times, indeed. By the way, 4 Real, did anybody in BH ever figure out who it was that �let the Jews out?�
Cops, for example, have really tough and dangerous jobs. Maybe they should live at the stations, too. They do lots of training.
For all the hysterics shouting �equipment is not the problem,� you�re absolutely right. It�s leadership. Or actually, the total lack of it at the LAFD. Why is it the County FD doesn�t seem to have any of the problems you people have? Granted, I�m sure they�re not perfect. Still. You people, time and again, refuse to learn from your mistakes. Worse, you refuse to adequately punish the people in the Department who are the worst offenders.
4 Real, you�re the expert on skewed statistics, here�s some homework: Find out if JA is now a helicopter pilot, or E (who helped cost the City a cool $6.2 mil) got promoted. Get back to me, will you. I�m sure the readers are curious. Maybe even our friend, Christine.
You reading this, Christine? See a story in here anywhere? You�re welcome to have it�
-
Hmmmmm.... 02/01/2008 5:16:00 PM
4 Real,
Thanks for the heads-up on the NIOSH report. The death of those 2 FFs is a tragedy. Why is it, though, the LAFD and SFFD are about the only 2 departments left in the West that still use wood ladders? Electrical companies all over the country use aluminum/fiberglass hybrids, and those folks know a thing or two about conductivity. Gosh, maybe even more than the LAFD. After all, we�ll both agree water combined with ANYTHING, even a baloney sandwich, is dangerous. And fires usually have water, don't they?
Ah, tradition. Maybe that's a reason. The SFFD, for example, has one guy on the department who turn wood rungs on a lathe all day. Another spends his time refinishing the damaged ladders. Great work if you can find it, huh? Really, though, when you think about it, it makes about as much sense as printing a rag like the LA Weekly in longhand.
Hybrids are lighter and safer and the future; wood is just another excuse to maintain the lame, antiquated cowboy/macho bullshit so many of you guys took the job for. If the ridiculous and unneeded extra weight helps keep women off the job, all the better. The fact is 90% of the job is EMS-related, much as it pains you guys to admit. You�re basically nurses. There�s room for women on the force. Sorry. Just keeping it �real.�
Con't....
-
City Librarian 02/01/2008 4:33:00 PM
the insider, We don't want your rejects, our books are heavy too!.
-
Retired 02/01/2008 3:50:00 PM
They use wooden ladders because it keeps firefighters busy maintining them in their down time. And it's "tradition". God forbid progress should get in the way of tradition. Whenver I asked "why do we do it this way?", the answer was....TRADITION.
-
the insider 02/01/2008 8:24:00 AM
It's amazing what happens when the truth is revealed. Some curse the messenger. Others blame those darn heavy tools and equipment. How pathtic that the conversation has devolved to blaming inanimate objects that cannot defend themselves. However, if they could they would certainly say what most L.A. firefighters would say; "It doesn't matter who I work with as long as they can do the job!" It's long past time for the weak (male and female) and their defenders to turn their attention to the want ads for city librarian. After all who gave them the right to waste taxpayer money on the failed proposition that firefighters don't need to be physically and mentally competent. It sounds like their real beef is not with the LAFD but with god. After all god made water weigh approximately 8 lbs. per gallon. God made metal an outstanding conductor of electricity. He also made all men and all women NOT created equal. Sorry! Those are just the cold hard facts. Deal with it!
-
LA Weekly Reader 02/01/2008 7:28:00 AM
FYI..for you newbies if you don't create a name it defaults to Anonymous Coward ..like so.
-
BLAME THE BEAUROCRATS! 01/31/2008 11:12:00 PM
There cannot be any lasting solution to this costly debacle as long as LA City politicians and LAFD management continues to place a higher value and priority on the NUMBER of women hired and retained by the LAFD and the NUMBER of minorites hired and retained by the LAFD, than the safety of firefighters and public they serve. That's a truth that'w well known by all, but publicly acknowledged by few.
-
On the Job by EARNING IT! 01/31/2008 7:02:00 PM
TO ALL THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY HAVE BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY:
WHY ARNT YOU ASKING FOR THE CHANCE TO PROOVE YOU CAN DO THE JOB? STOP CRYING AND PROOVE IT! I AM SURE THE CAMERAS AND ALL THE CRITICS WILL BE THERE DO DOCCUMENT WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO. OFCOURSE IT IS EASIER TO HIDE YOU FAILURE BEHIND "POLITICAL HOT TICKET" CLAIMS.
TO ALL THE CRITICS:
UNTIL YOU ARE WILLING TO ATTEMPT A DRILL TOWER. UNTIL YOU PROOVE YOU ARE WORTHY OF WEARING THE BADGE YOUR UNTESTED AND UNPROVEN CHARACTER CARRIES NO MERRIT WITH THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE PROVEN THEMSELVES AND ARE SAVING LIVES AND PROPERTY EVERY DAY!
PUT UP OR SHUT UP! IT;S THAT EASY......On the Job by EARNING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Swaaah 01/31/2008 4:57:00 PM
...And for those few who chose to bite the hand that feeds you with frivolous lawsuits and "steal taxpayer money"....may you come back in the afterlife as a 35' foot extension ladder !!!
